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50NL FR post flop line with JJ

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50NL FR post flop line with JJ - Tue Jan 08, 2013, 04:48 AM
(#1)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
50NL regular FR table. This hand occurred two hands after the 77 hand I posted and is against the same TAG multitabling reg.

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-h...024_B3981FE369

I am unhappy with the whole hand. JJ is the bottom end of my 3-bet calling range. I put him on 88+ and AJs+. I gave him a slightly wider range than normal since he had position on me.

I got a decent flop, but decided to again keep the pot small in case he had an better pair than mine. I considered check-raising, but didn't want to get value owned. However, I didn't want to give him a chance to get an overcard on the turn either. I felt handcuffed and unsure what to do.

On the turn, I thought I was still most likely ahead, but I wasn't sure enough to lead with a bet. I decided to check call again.

The A on the river was a scare card. Did the villain check with AK, hoping to enduce a raise from me? Or did the A scare him and I should fire a 1/3 pot bet hoping to get him to fold QQ, KK in case he had them?

I hate playing hands so passively! Perhaps folding pf would have kep me out of trouble. Any advice would be welcome

Roland GTX
 
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Tue Jan 08, 2013, 05:17 AM
(#2)
TheAwesomeNW's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 474
Hmm I would have folded JJ some of the time PF, sometimes against regs I'll flat it, preferably in position.

As played I think it's necessary to call at least once on the Flop as an overpair. No point raising as we'll be called by better IMO. Flush draws might even reraise and we'll be put in a more difficult spot.

OTT, I might consider folding if he had a larger bet sizing like 3/4 pot. It could mean that we've been dominated by TT, QQ+. But in this instance, his cbet was <1/2 pot so ya I'll call it.

OTR it should be a check-fold. Board gets scary. If he bets, probably means Ax or FD got there. Even if he bets with TT, QQ+, we're losing. So, I would have played the same way as you did
 
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Tue Jan 08, 2013, 05:33 AM
(#3)
Croyd93's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 639
Pre flop if fine for me no point in going crazy, your hand is good enough to play OOP. You'll often have easy decisions in a 3bet pot, if an overcard comes and he barrels hard then you can get away. In this spot I'm looking to keep the pot small with one pair and get to showdown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland GTX View Post
I got a decent flop, but decided to again keep the pot small in case he had an better pair than mine. I considered check-raising, but didn't want to get value owned. However, I didn't want to give him a chance to get an overcard on the turn either. I felt handcuffed and unsure what to do.

On the flop I would x/c, for the reasons you state above. I suppose you could donk here, but then it allows him to turn worse hands into bluffs which he might do some of the time. Check call keeps his range widest as he's cbetting with nearly his entire range.

On the turn I'm unsure though, the turn card brings no fold equity so I odn't actually expect him to be double barreling with air very often (However I don't play these stakes). A ten should bet, as will bigger PP's, as well as the Ax combos he has in his range seeing as they picked up a guyshot. I think you can donk here for value but again I hate it if he raises so x/c if fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland GTX View Post
The A on the river was a scare card. Did the villain check with AK, hoping to enduce a raise from me? Or did the A scare him and I should fire a 1/3 pot bet hoping to get him to fold QQ, KK in case he had them?
I don't get what you mean here, the villain can't enduce a rise as he is last to act. I don't think you should lead here you have showdown value and I don't expect him to fold QQ or KK. I would be x/f'ing here.

Another interesting hand, I'll be intrigued to see what everyone thinks.


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Tue Jan 08, 2013, 05:50 AM
(#4)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croyd93 View Post

I don't get what you mean here, the villain can't enduce a rise as he is last to act. I don't think you should lead here you have showdown value and I don't expect him to fold QQ or KK. I would be x/f'ing here.

Another interesting hand, I'll be intrigued to see what everyone thinks.
Thanks Oliver! My mistake writing the hand from memory. More proof that I was rather confused in this spot

Roland GTX
 
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Tue Jan 08, 2013, 11:23 AM
(#5)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
I still need help here too
 
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Tue Jan 08, 2013, 01:14 PM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,501
(Head Trainer)
Hi Greg,

Ok, first off this may sound nitty, but I doubt it is profitable to call this guys 3b and play the pot out of position without the initiative with JJ. Implied odds are 17-1 but this is not a great candidate to give it up easily when we hit a jack, and when we don't, we often end up check-folding to overcards on the flop or, as was the case here, getting a bit lost to undercards. It's actually ok to fold preflop here as this is really a bad situation. (If he spews post, is very predictable/exploitable in some way, or if he's 3-betting frequently, i.e. light a lot, then the situation gets better and continuing is good).

I agree with check-caling the flop.

I think check-folding on the turn is prudent, it's just very unlikely he's barreling worse hands (without reads he will do this regularly). About the best case for us is that he's got the nut flush draw and is barreling that.

An interesting aside: *IF* I called the turn barrel, it would be with the intenion of turning my hand into a bluff and shoving any scary river card. Not recommending this play for casual use but this seems like a spot that fits:

-Villain has $30.50 left in a $38 pot, so there's plenty of fold equity to be leveraged.
-Villain is capable of folding good but not great 1 pair hands
-Villain is ranging us, and our line post flop looks a lot like a draw
-Villain probably expects us to check-call or check-fold our medium strength hands like we have here and will not credit us with being able to turn JJ into a bluff if they have no reads on us.

It's an important point because the single best card in the deck to give this a try on imo is the actual river we got, the ace of spades. It completes straights and flushes, and is an over to big pairs that aren't aces. It's the otimpal scare card. If we open shove this river it is an extremely difficult call for KK or QQ, and it's a call I don't expect this particular villain to make. And his range is pretty heavy with KK and QQ (as well as the other 2 jacks). If he's got a set of tens or aces, I suspect he'll vomit and call most of the time, but sometimes a player like this may even make a "hero fold" with a set because they think we simply have to have it. Regardless, there are 13 card combos of JJ-KK and only 6 of AA and TT (and I doubt he would 3-bet preflop with TT very often here). So he's a heavy favorite imo to have a hand that is both slightly better than ours and very unlikely to call a river shove.


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Wed Jan 09, 2013, 09:10 AM
(#7)
kingkong263's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 175
why did u call the 3 bet?
 

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