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NL5FR Straight nuts on flop villain raise

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NL5FR Straight nuts on flop villain raise - Thu Jan 10, 2013, 06:31 AM
(#1)
powerdegre's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 563
BronzeStar
No reads, had barely seated a few minutes earlier.

NL5 full ring 9 seated
UTG1 limp
MID1 (5$) limp
Hero (4$) limp on CO with 2d3d
BB check
Flop is 5c4dAd
Pot is 0.22
BBcheck
UTG1 check
MID1 raise 0.15
Hero?

I'm a bit confused here as at the micro I've seen all sorts of behaviours and I never really know what to do, as apparently everything I do doesn't extract...

But what should be the correct behaviour here? Check and let him lead? Raise? Shove?
 
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Thu Jan 10, 2013, 11:58 AM
(#2)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,501
(Head Trainer)
Hi power,

In this hand, first thing is the preflop play... fold 23s preflop, this is not going to be a profitable hand to limp in with as we can't call a raise behind us, and we don't flop strong nearly often enough to continue profitably post flop. Later in the session with reads on our opponents and ideas about how we can profitably get involved that don't necessarily involve flopping strong, we might do so, but not new to the table with no reads.

On the flop, this is an absolute must raise imo. The villain's bet (even readless) is indicative of either a draw or an ace (or better), and he's not folding any of these to a raise. There are so many scare cards that might slow down our action later in the hand. And it's a limped pot, if we want to grow the pot we have to start right now while the bet sizing will be both the easiest for the villain to call and the board/situation probably the friendliest in his eyes as well. Shove I don't like without reads, it's a massive overbet with only .37c in the pot and 4$ behind. I think we can raise this to like .45-.50 and go from there. If he reraises us then I would 4b shove and give him a chance to stack off on the flop with his strong aces or better made hands.


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Last edited by TheLangolier; Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 12:00 PM..
 
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Thu Jan 10, 2013, 08:16 PM
(#3)
powerdegre's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 563
BronzeStar
Thanks Langolier, I was thinking something alone the line and I've learned my lesson tonight, good for me I was on the other side and this chap with a set of Kings allowed to draw my gutshot, which opened my eyes.

 
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Thu Jan 10, 2013, 09:25 PM
(#4)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
On that second hand I guess you can overlimp in the cutoff, but JTo can get you into a lot of trouble when you just flop one pair multiway, so I'd prefer a beginner to fold pre, despite the tempting pot odds.
As played, you flopped a gutshot and no pair. That is not a good spot to be in. Villain makes it really cheap (4c into 13c) but you still don't have immediate odds to call. (Gutshots are about 10-1 against hitting). Also bear in mind that with the action being re-opened, someone could check-raise big after slowplaying in this multiway pot.
You spiked your 4-outer on the turn and hold the nuts, so try and get as much value as possible. Villain bet the flop. His most likely holding is a King. He's not going to fold if you bet around 3/4 pot. Half pot bets just don't get much value. Bet as much as you think villain will call. Bear in mind that your hand can't get any better, so get as much value as you can before the board gets too ugly for whatever villain has.
When villain check-raises, he's almost never doing it as a bluff. He thinks he has the best hand. Give him the bad news by re-raising. You want to get stacks in. Don't flat the re-raise. When you've made a monster hand that is vulnerable to better hands (flushes/boats) try and get all your money in while you're the favourite.
Given that you had the nut straight and villain had top set, it's incredible that you weren't all in on the turn.
 
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Fri Jan 11, 2013, 06:46 AM
(#5)
powerdegre's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 563
BronzeStar
I tend overplay TJ as is a pet hand of mind, links to a lots of possible draws and you can decently play a top pair even thought your kicker isn't one of the best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokesPS View Post
Given that you had the nut straight and villain had top set, it's incredible that you weren't all in on the turn.
You mean to say that I should've shoved instead of 3betting?
 
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Fri Jan 11, 2013, 08:13 AM
(#6)
Built-byTilt's Avatar
Since: Dec 2012
Posts: 508
Actually this was a double gut shot or double belly buster, giving you the same amount of outs as an open ended straight draw. I liked how you played the hand, limping with a speculative hand, and calling his raise (you did have the right pot odds with 8 outs). The villain could not have played his hand any worse. Limping with KK is just asking for someone else to hit a monster with a speculative hand as you did. I try to thin the field to one or two opponents when holding a monster hand. His post flop bet was awful too. Anybody with a straight or flush draw is getting great odds to call.

Anyways, well played power.. good to see you taking down a set of kings.
 
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Fri Jan 11, 2013, 09:30 AM
(#7)
powerdegre's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 563
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Built-byTilt View Post
The villain could not have played his hand any worse. Limping with KK is just asking for someone else to hit a monster with a speculative hand as you did.
This was mostly what I wanted to point out when I posted the second hand, was meant to be a straight answer to my question in the opening post: what should I do when I have the nuts on the flop and the opponent bet?

This second hands tell me that for sure I don't want to take it slowly, you are giving away chances, this guy allowed me first to see the flop virtually free, then with the min-raise he allowed me to see the turn for a fair price. By the way, I loved the check/raise on the river, makes completely no sense.

So, with this hand played, going back to my original hand, what should I do with 23s when I flop an A5 straight and my opponent bet? I raise.
Why? Because whatever outs he has to improve on my hand I better make him pay for them.
 
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Mon Jan 14, 2013, 01:22 AM
(#8)
Built-byTilt's Avatar
Since: Dec 2012
Posts: 508
Having no reads is tough. It would make it a lot easier to know if the villain would limp with an A mid kicker. Most likely he had a speculative hand, hoping to see a cheap flop and hit it big.

I'm far from an expert, but if it was me I would raise him. He could be on a flush draw although this is unlikely as you hold two diamonds. He could have limped with 44 or 55 and hit his set. If that's the case then you want to get as much money in as possible on the flop. This is so a scare card for you or him doesn't kill any action you could get. Ex: any diamond or possibly a 2 or 3.

Just my opinion, hope it helps!
 
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Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:34 AM
(#9)
powerdegre's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 563
BronzeStar
Cheers mate, appreciated!
 

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