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Live Game River Bets (Multi-way pots)

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Live Game River Bets (Multi-way pots) - Sun Jan 13, 2013, 08:18 AM
(#1)
pilot1112's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 8
Hi guys,

I just came across a particular scenario last night in a 100-200 live cash game. I wanted to put this question to people who might have come across a similar thing in the past or if there's an established procedure for this.. Nevermind what the currency is. Lets just talk chips for a minute. We are at the river and there are 3 players in the hand. Below are the stack sizes before the last round of betting.

Seat1: 12k
Seat 7: 2.6k
Seat 9: 20k

Seat 1 bets out 2k, seat 7 goes all-in for 2.6k and seat 9 calls. Action is back on seat 1. Now the question is can seat 1 re-raise?

Secondly in tournament mode, would the ruling be any different?

Please share your thoughts and let us know your experience (perhaps as player/floor man, TD, etc)

Thanks.
 
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Sun Jan 13, 2013, 11:16 AM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
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Hi pilot1112!

The simple answer is NO. The first raise was from 200 to 2k (1800). When the next player goes all-in, they are only raising 600. For the betting to be re-opened, they would need to raise at least 1800 more. If seat 1 had not acted yet, then they would have an opportunity to raise, but since they opened the betting and the last raise was not a legal raise (at least as much as the previous raise), all that player 1 can do is to call.

I had a similar situation happen in my live tourney league last month.

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Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:20 PM
(#3)
pilot1112's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 8
Thanks John but I fear you might have misunderstood the situation here. We are talking about the river only. There is no 1800 raise since seat 1 opened for 2k once the river had been dealt. Secondly this is a cash game not a tourney and possibly a different set of rules apply which is why I am seeking further explanation on here. There was a major argument amongst regular players. One of the regs argued that there were no more cards to be dealt and therefore a re-raise should be allowed and apparently so is the case in several casinos worldwide including Macao. I found it puzzling myself so here I am.. :s

I know that in tournament mode, tda rules wouldn't allow it as you rightly said but again.. cash game scenario..

Last edited by pilot1112; Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 05:25 PM..
 
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Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:57 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
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Any cash game I've ever been in, if there isn't a legal raise, then the original bettor or raiser cannot re-raise. I had it happen in a casino cash game a couple months ago to me.

I'll make sure that Dave sees this when he gets back on Wed.

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Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:09 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
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Here was the exact scenario in mine.

Opp 1 bets $3
Folds around to opp 2 that raises all-in to $4
I call the $4
Opp 1 wants to re-raise but is told by the dealer and then by the floor that he has two options.. call or fold.. since there was not a legal raise.

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Wed Jan 16, 2013, 10:08 AM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
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Hi,

John is correct, Seat 1 can not raise again. In order for the betting to be re-opened to seat 1, he would have to face a legal raise... since his bet was 2K the minimum amount to complete a legal raise (a "min-raise") would be 2K more making it 4K to go... since seat 7 has gone all in for 2.6K total, 600 more is not enough. His only options are to fold or call.

Every active player is entitled to at least 1 chance to bet or raise per round. Seat 1 took his, betting 2K. In order for him to do so again someone else must make a legal raise, reopening action to seat 1 to raise again. In this example seat 9 could have raised the all in bet of 2.6K (he has yet to have his first chance to bet/raise), but once seat 9 calls, since no one has reopened the betting for seat 1 he can not raise again.

Put in other terms, because the all in was for an amount less than a legal raise, it doesn't technically count as an aggressive action, so in this case the last player to take an aggressive action was seat 1, and allowing him to raise again would essentially be allowing him to raise himself. You can only raise another players aggressive action, you can't raise yourself.

This is the same in cash games or tournaments.


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Wed Jan 16, 2013, 01:13 PM
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**moved to better fitting forum JWK24**


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