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10NL - trouble with KK against two opponents

10NL - trouble with KK against two opponents - Wed Jan 16, 2013, 05:57 AM
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
I'm not happy with how I played this hand, the bet sizing and action by my opponents confused me alot.

No information on villains they are total unknowns to me.

Flop: Raise? or Fold? or Flat?
Bells are ringing when the BB flats the raiser

Turn: What sort of bet is that?!

River: with the T pairing; I think this could be a fold especially when we have the SB, who raised my flop bet, left to act.

What's your take on this?
Wed Jan 16, 2013, 04:40 PM
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,517
(Head Trainer)
Hi Geo,

Ugly situation. You c-bet 2/3rds of the pot and got check-raised by the SB, and the min-check-raise is often a weaker player bet sizing tell of a very strong hand. Then the BB cold calls. I agree with warning bells ringing. Tricky part is with no reads we don't know fully what his cold call means... he could have QT or a set and be slow playing. He could have KJ or J9 and be drawing. Or he could just have a Q and be a big fish. Given this change of events I actually think folding is ok here. It's quite possible one of them has us beat right now. And if we call how are we going to proceed on the turn? There'll be 4.50 in the pot and the aggressor has 7.36 left to bet... if he stays aggressive and the BB continues as well, I don't see how we can continue in this hand unimproved and expect it to be profitable long term. The cards that improve us are basically just a K, and a 2 isn't too bad either as it pulls us ahead of QT. That's not too many favorable cards. So calling is fairly unattracive, and reraising is really unattractive to me as it basically commits us and I would expect to be in bad shape quite often when we get stack action. At least calling we can remain uncommitted, and use our position to see the turn and what they both do before making a more informed decision. I would say fold > call >> re-raising here. If we had reads this could be totally different.

I think the turn is a decent sequence of events for us. The SB slowed down and checked, and the BB bet small, less than 40% of the pot. This indicates possible weaker ranges for them both, like the SB having top pair and check-raising to "see where he's at", or making a move on a straight draw, and the BB being a fish with top pair or having a straight draw and trying to partially block you from making a bigger bet if checked to on the turn. We still can't rule out V2 going for a check-raise jam though with a strong hand, or V3 trying to ensure action on a set as well with his smaller bet, so I think given this new turn of events I would flat 1.70, and fold to another check-raise from V2.

On the river the ten pairs, V2 checks and V3 bets small again (31% of the pot). I would at least call now. The weak betting line indicates a hand like top pair from V3, wouldn't be suprised to see him table KQ or QJ. And V2 seems very unlikely to have monsters in his range or he'd have been all in on the turn. And I doubt he took this flop and turn line with a ten in his hand, so not really worried about trips either.

On balance I think call is best, since the situation with V3 is still somewhat uncertain readless, and a call can invite bad overcalls from V2 if he's got a Q. Where as if we raise we probably value own ourselves a bit too much. (Again, readless... with reads maybe totally different).

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Thu Jan 17, 2013, 04:17 AM
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
V2 had QT (did not even put the rest in!)
V3 had 22

How's that for a read?

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