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2NL Zoom 6max, 3bet pot out of position

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2NL Zoom 6max, 3bet pot out of position - Thu Jan 17, 2013, 11:06 AM
(#1)
TommyGun369's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 340
Hello everyone,

From the regular tables I am used to value bet these kind of hands like crazy expecting to be called by a really wide range of hands (especially Ax combos) but in Zoom this strategy is not really proving to be too profitable. My though process here was:

1) Although I have no stats on the villain I made a note saying that he opens wide on the button (like most of the regulars there) so I decided to 3bet my KQs for value (and I thought he would also fold all his A rag combos so I protect myself from being outdrawn on the flop)
Is the 3bet sizing ok or should I make it something like 20-24c out of position next time?

2) On the flop I usually make very small cbets on this kind of board texture thinking he would only continue if he hit the ace, queen or has something like JTs. This bet sizing will also sometimes encourage pocket underpairs to call thinking I am weak capturing more dead money in the pot. Even if he had JTs with an OESD he would suffer from reverse implied odds should the K hit giving me a full house and him the nut straight so basically JT only had 4 outs which makes it unprofitable to call even that small bet.

3) I was very surprised to see him calling on the turn so I thought the most likely hand for him was AK, maybe AJ or if I am lucky QJ.

4) I still wanted to shove the river because I could not think of many hands that beat me
AA - not likely, 99% of zoom 6max players fast play AA preflop (or try to pull off the old limp raise )
TT - he could peel one off with tens but that is kind of unlikely because there are only 6 combinations of TT left
KJ - to be honest i did not even consider KJ his actual hand because I could not see him calling preflop and on the flop with it



Any help on how to tackle this situation in the future would be appreciated.

Thank you.

Tom
 
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Thu Jan 17, 2013, 02:58 PM
(#2)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,501
(Head Trainer)
Hi Tommy,

I like the bet/bet/bet line here as the villains range includes a lot of big aces and we're only behind AQ in that regard. I generally bet larger on the flop though, since we will almost certainly be (at least) called by an ace or Q, but not likely to get called by smaller pairs anyway, so go ahead and extract more value from his aces and any worse Q's. It's also a scary board texture for a lot of your range and an aggressive player may use this spot to raise as a semi-bluff... sizing a bit bigger facilitates getting more money in for all these cases.

I think you should note that you considered TT possible but not KJ, although facing the small flop c-bet KJ is more likely imo. Not only combinatorically but because KJ has more outs to improve than TT as well. The small c-bet can be perceived as a possible follow throw with a weak holding, so he figures a ten is good, and once in a while he'll make a K or J and show that down as a winner too. So .13c to peel in position with a better situation in KJ than TT.

(Note, weaker hands than TT, like if he held 88, they don't matter even though TT beats 88, because they won't be showing down... he'll either fire another shell which TT or KJ won't be able to call unimproved, or he'll give up and check, which TT can show down to beat but KJ will complete the float and take the pot away from him, basically the same result... and if you're going to hero him down in a big pot with 3rd pair etc, then he should be playing lots of pots in position with you and value betting like crazy.

My only quibble though is with the flop sizing. I like the turn sizing and feel good about our hand strength vs. his range when he doesn't raise us. The river shove is a bit uncertain without reads... I would definitely be willing to get the money in here but not sure if it's more likely to maximize value by shoving, or checking and allowing him to bluff busted draws. If he calls twice with lots of draws, then check-calling might be better. If he's prone to checking down showdown value hands but will hero with them a lot in spots like this, then shoving is better. In this case since I suspect a villain might raise the small flop bet more often with a draw, and call more often with showdown value like a weak ace, I favor shoving as you did.


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Thu Jan 17, 2013, 04:13 PM
(#3)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
I agree that the only mistake is the flop bet size. It doesn't achieve anything.
So bet more on the flop, so you get value from flush and straight draws, as well as random aces. The last thing you want to do is let a hand like 87hh suck out a flush cheaply, as you'll find it hard to fold your hand on later streets. Villain would probably call a 3/4 pot bet with JT or KJ, so get the value there. Obviously, it's perfect if villain has JT, as making the nut straight will give you a boat, and you'll win a big pot. But to win a big pot, you have to start building one early.
 

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