Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Texas Hold'Em Cash Games /

2 NLHE, pocket 7s out of position as overpair vs a Flop C-Bet

Old
Default
2 NLHE, pocket 7s out of position as overpair vs a Flop C-Bet - Sun Jan 27, 2013, 01:09 PM
(#1)
guataco's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 39
Hi all:

I played this hand out of position against a lag and a tight preflop villains, wich I did not have much history; I don´t use HUD but we played around 30 hands.

Villain # 2 open raise 5x or 3 bet pre flop most hands, and follow the aggression on the flop if he hits or have a strong draw, otherwise fold. He has a huge opening range.

Villain # 5 is super tight pre flop; I don´t know if he is TAG or NIT because he hasn´t played much.

 
Old
Default
Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:22 PM
(#2)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,353
Villain 2 opened for 6bb. That is double the standard raise from that position. It gives you less enticing pot odds to go set-mining than a normal raise, but you may still be able to win a stack if he makes top pair when you spike a set. I'd be tempted to fold if no one else came into the pot, though, because your implied odds aren't ideal. You'd have to call 5bb to potentially win 100bb (so it's the recommended 20:1 ratio), but this player is very loose. He's unlikely to have a stack-off hand very often.
The nit entering the pot makes it an easier call. His range is tighter, and he will likely pay you off when he has an overpair or TPTK.

So calling pre-flop is fine.

On the flop, the LAG does not c-bet into 2 players. He most likely missed completely, so is check-folding.
The nit bets about half pot. What do you put him on? There is no flush draw. The only 6s, 3s and 2s that tight players call pre-flop with are pocket pairs, or occasionally suited acess. He'd also bet with all overpairs like 88+.
You have the worst possible overpair on this board. Against the nit, you are only beating A6s. You are losing to 66, 33, 22, 88+. You have to FOLD!

When set-mining, maintain your discipline. You didn't flop a set or an open ended straight draw. You got in fairly cheaply. Now get out before it gets expensive!

As played, you called and then the villain checked the turn. He must have thought you made a straight or a set, as I can't work out why he gave up after c-betting on this board. Maybe he folded 88.
 
Old
Default
Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:21 PM
(#3)
guataco's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 39
Thank you for your insight ArtySmokesPS.

I started calling for set mining, but the way the hand developed made me to follow with it and ended up well. I would like to explain my line of thought...

I check-called the flop because I thought the Tight player (villain #5) range was: 9-9 to J-J or combinations of A-Qs, K-Qs and A-K (Q-Q+ and A-Ks probably would have 3-Bet the LAG). I had the Loose pre flop player (Villain #2) who had checked after me, but since he did not bet the flop I was pretty sure he was going to fold.
Since the flop was so dry and the tight player was in position, his 50% C-bets did not necessarily meant a value bet, therefore I decided to peel one card off: If he had a pocket pair (18 combinations with the range I mentioned) I was beaten, but If he had A-X, K-Q (20 combinations) I was ahead, so it will all come down to the Turn.

I thought his hand was not strong enough once he checked back the turn, so I suspected I had a chance to take the pot on the river with a bet size that looks like a value bet (I still don´t know if he had a better pair or he had overcards to the board)

I did not mentioned it, but I had a tight image myself too implying that I value bet more than bluff, specially on the river.

Last edited by guataco; Sun Jan 27, 2013 at 05:22 PM.. Reason: orthographic
 
Old
Default
Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:05 AM
(#4)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,510
(Head Trainer)
Hi guataco,

I think the preflop call is fine, but I would approach post flop a bit differently personally... I'd prefer to lead right out here on this flop. The loose guy has mostly missed this board, but he will call us with some big aces and with worse pairs than 77 so we can get some value from him. While the nit will not likely call with worse, he will often have 2 big cards like AJ-AK and we don't mind those folding out their equity in the pot. And by betting, we avoid giving a free card to 2 players.

As played, I agree with Arty this is just a fold on the flop. The Nit is probably not betting as a bluff too often, nits don't do that, especially into 2 players. So if the read is accurate, we're not beating much of anything in his value betting range, just let it go. He is not C-betting btw, only the last preflop aggressor can make a continuation bet (continuing their aggressive lead in the hand). Since the board run out didn't change much, and I can't imagine him folding an overpair on the river, it seems he did in fact stab at the flop with air into 2 players, so the read of nit is probably not quite accurate.


Head Live Trainer
Check out my Videos

4 Time Bracelet Winner



 
Old
Default
Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:14 PM
(#5)
guataco's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 39
Thank you Dave, for sharing your analysis of the hand.

At the end it seems like there were three viable options:

1. Check-Call: the passive approach that I took on the Flop
2. Check-Fold: the conservative approach that Arty suggests
3. Bet (I guess folding if I got raised): the aggressive approach that you propose, which apparently would have led the same result without risking giving a free card to a player that seems to be holding overcards

It´s interesting to see the same situation from three different perspectives.

Thank you again
 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com