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Insult to Injury

Old
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Insult to Injury - Tue Nov 19, 2002, 11:24 PM
(#1)
Deleted user
OK. I'M HOT!!! And I gotta do this while I'm still hot. I'm sick and tired of this happening. Time and time again, day after day. Tournament after tournament. It's time for me to get it off my chest. The following happened in tonight's PSO Freeroll No Limit tourney.

I't was about 50 minutes into the tournament. I had just over $11K. I was in early postion with (A, A). I put a pot size raise in ($950). I got one caller who had (Qs, Ks).

The flop was (Q, rag, rag, no spade draw).

I bet pot again. He thought he had a hand and he put all his chips in. Of course I called.

He hit a Queen on the river and I was gone from the tournament.

Just before I shut the software down I noticed he had typed "sry sgt".

ENOUGH ALREADY!!! Pleas stop it. I don't need it. I don't want it.

At this point I suspect you're probably figuring I'm just another guy whining about a bad beat. WRONG!

You think I don't want you to call my pre-flop raise with your (Q, K)? Heads up you're a one to four dog. Of course I want you to call me.

And, when you hit your Queen on the flop and think you've got a hand, do you think I don't want you to put your stack in? Of course I do. If I didn't I wouldn't be much of a poker player.

I know my big hands are going to get beat. That's the nature of the beast. What pisses me off is this "sorry" chit.

Why are you sorry? Are you not here to win the tournament? Can you win the tournament without knocking me out of the tournament? Is it not your objective to knock me and everybody else on their keesters and go right to number one? OF COURSE IT IS!

If it isn't, then what are you doing here? If you are truly sorry then get the heck out of PSO and quit playing poker.

And if you're just saying it to be polite then please, stop adding insult to injury.

I don't need your "sorry". I don't want your "sorry." Keep your "sorry" to yourself.

Just quietly move on to the next hand and let me crawl off to lick my wounds.

At the very moment that the hand goes down I'm hurting, but don't misunderstand. I wouldn't want you to play your hand any other way. I just want you to stop saying "sorry."

sarge

ps: just thought I would add a little chuckle to show you how my night went.

The 9 pm No Limit tourney started shortly there after. Early in the tournament I lost two thirds of my stack when, with a (T,J) I flopped trips and the big blind (T, 6) hit his six on the turn.

Shortly there after, in the Small Blind, I put the rest of my stack in with (A, Q) and was called by the button who hadj (A, J).

He hit his Jack on the turn and I was done.

aaaaaaaahahahahahahahahah. aaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahah ahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahha. aaaaaaaaaaha hahahhahahahahahaha. aaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahaahahahhahahahhahahhahhahahhah
 
Old
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Tue Nov 19, 2002, 11:41 PM
(#2)
Deleted user
I'm sure glad the 2nd two people didnt apologize

Bill
 
Old
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Wed Nov 20, 2002, 07:42 AM
(#3)
Deleted user
This wasn't me, but..

I say sorry in this situation.

Do we say sorry to add insult to injury, or to let you know that we got lucky, and I for one am actually sorry.
Yes I want to win every tourny, but I'd prefer to knock players out by being ahead in the hand and winning.
When he put his chips in, he thought he was ahead, he wasn't and therefore expects to lose, if he gets lucky then I suspect he is sorry, he wouldn't go all in knowing he is behind, hoping to get lucky, and nor would I, so I'm sorry I misread the hand and won a pot I didn't deserve to win.
You can win a tourny without ever winning a hand like this.

However if others also feel that sorry is not needed then I'll heed this

However, the times I'm ahead when all in and lose outnumber the times I'm behind when all in and win.....about 8 to 1

If it happens to me, sorry or not, I still hate you lol

CLAY
 
Old
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Wed Nov 20, 2002, 07:48 AM
(#4)
Deleted user
Sorry about all the beats sgt. :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:


Randy
 
Old
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Wed Nov 20, 2002, 11:42 AM
(#5)
Deleted user
Hey Sarge.

I'm sorry man.

(We're all evil)

Hazy
 
Old
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Wed Nov 20, 2002, 01:12 PM
(#6)
Deleted user
Nice post Sarge. If you're gonna beat them or be beat; do it, or have it done; big and in style!

Sorry? Pshaw! No way!


Shoeless Joe
 
Old
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Wed Nov 20, 2002, 01:55 PM
(#7)
Deleted user
Sgt,
insinuation (did i spell that right?), is one of the problems of on-line poker. "i'm sorry" does not necessarily mean what it says; i've found players doing that after knocking out a "good" player. then they wait a few minutes (to make sure the person is logged off) and tell one of their bud's "Man, i kicked ------(<insert name), ass!!!!, lol, lol, lol. so take it with a grain of salt Sgt. it just means your a good player (and a TARGET) for the ones willing to go against the odds to knock you out.

strange thing is you hardly ever hear that at a live game (except from some woman, who are really sorry). if a woman says it, its probably just the motherly instince kicking in. but then, a lot of what goes on ,on-line poker is never seen at a live game, cause they know they take the chance of being punched in the nose.
 
Old
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Wed Nov 20, 2002, 07:07 PM
(#8)
Deleted user
Well sgt, I like u, I respect u, I am one of the ones that said sorry and u emailed me about it and also another response i said. SITUATION: I'M late postion large stack at table late in tourney blinds 1500, utg limps who has 3500 in chips i dont know the player but think he will laydown and if he calls thats ok cause i have over 20k so no problem i have q j spades i raise 3k hoping to take pot down or isolate. u go all in for another 2800 from the bblind. utg calls now there is 15k in the pot Do i think u have me yes i do
no ifs and or buts buttttttttttt how in the hell can i lay down 2 suited connectors to a raise of 2800 with the chance of knocking 2 p layers out and even if i call u i still have over 15k. IM SORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRY I SEE THIS AS A EASY CALL. utg has q9, u have AA flop q 9 5 6 j i won and i said "sorry bout that sgt" but before i said that i stated "to much money" i think was it i was refering to risk verses reward, Im no expert but imo if i fold there it is a big mistake.

Now u send me a email anyone that has emailed me on here knows im no literature major or typist so because of who u are I take the time out to actually write probably the longest letter i have ever typed on this internet. To explain my rational and why i typed sorry, IM NOT SORRY I BEAT U THAT HAND, I NEVER AM I WANT TO BEAT U, I WANT TO EVERY HAND, but my human nature is to express my shall we say emotions that it had to be u because of a friendship respect relationship that I have towards u. If it offends u once again im sorry,

We are not at B&M where u see this phenomenon very little, we can see the distaste of the defeat in face, body language and so fourth. Online has taken a different path where as to take the place of this. WE ALL HAVE THIS HAPPEN TO US. I for one actually like to know the player wasnt some dumbass that was just taking a pot shot at me because of who i am. In some strange way it makes me feel better when they type this as to let me know they got lucky especially if its for the rite reason.

I take this as a freindly gesture from 1 friend to another. nothing more nothing less. would u like it better if they stated kicked ur ass with rags. I wouldnt the pain is enuff. We all want to get in with the best of it thats all we can do and hope they fall our way.


Dang cant believe i typed this much.

ur friend
 
Old
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Wed Nov 20, 2002, 07:40 PM
(#9)
Deleted user
yes, folding in that spot would be outright awful, regardless whether or not they were suited connectors like QJspades. I would've called with anything from J2o if the betting went down like that.

dan
 
Old
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Wed Nov 20, 2002, 09:00 PM
(#10)
Deleted user
i am with freddie on this one i will sometimes type "sorry" in chat after i have sucked out on a players whose play i respect most time i do know i am behind when i called or i get called and the play was the correct play IMHO but that i got lucky hitting the right flop,turn or river.

the "sorry" is not a "i dont want your chips" but more a mark of respect to a "better player" than i just got lucky off.
 
Old
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Thu Nov 21, 2002, 07:16 PM
(#11)
Deleted user
Well, Freddie, wasn’t that a surprise. There I go making assumptions again. This is the second time someone has taken something I said (wrote) and made it public. I gotta stop doing this.

First of all, if you think that I was referring to the hand you and I were involved in then maybe you should go back and re-read my original post in this thread. If you do that you will see that the situation, although somewhat similar, is not the same as the one you and I were involved in.

In the one you and I were involved in it was late in the tournament, there were three people in the hand and your hand was (Q, J). (Just as an aside, when your cards were turned over I saw (Qs, Jc) which is one of the reasons I sent you that email. I didn’t see two suited cards. Don’t know what I was smokin’ that day.)

In the hand I described at the start of this thread it was early in the tournament, there were only two people in the hand and the other person’s hand was (Qs, Ks).

Now, because the hands were quite similar, and if you didn’t really read the initial post, I can understand why you might think I was talking about you. A simple email to me would have cleared that up.

And, the reason I didn’t mention any names was specifically so no one would think I was singling them out.

You wrote:
Quote:
I am one of the ones that said sorry and u emailed me about it.
Freddie that’s not true. I did not email you about it. That’s not what my email was about. I did not email you about “sorry”. I happened to think of it while I was typing the email, so I thought I would mention it in passing.

This is the paragraph I typed:
Quote:
“Now, don’t misunderstand me. I have no problem with your call. I will win that confrontation 85% of the time and that’s a good bet. I do have a pet peeve about people apologizing when they put a beat on someone else but that isn’t my question either. My question isn’t about your call rather it’s about your comment. (referring to your “too much money” comment).
BUT THAT ISN’T MY QUESTION EITHER.

Meaning, THAT’S NOT WHAT THIS EMAIL IS ABOUT. I only mentioned it in passing. I kind of hoped you might take notice and not do it in the future but I didn’t want you to focus on it as being the reason for my email.

How asinine can I get? I must have taken at least six stupid pills that day. To think that I could suggest that you not focus on the “sorry” thing and actually have you not focus on the “sorry” thing.

At the end of the email I typed the question that I wanted answered:

“If I had been able to turn my hand face up after I made the bet, would you still have made the call?”

And THAT’S what my email was about. I simply wanted some information.

I sent you a private email for a reason. I wasn’t looking to get into a discussion about this particular hand. And, at the risk of repeating myself, the reason I didn’t mention any names in my original post here was because I didn’t want to happen exactly what did happen. Someone took it personal and felt they had to defend themselves.

All I was looking for in my original email to you was information.

I also like and respect you, and because you are one of the better players here at PSO, and because I’m always looking for ways to improve my game I thought I just might garner some information from you that might help me to make decisions in the future.

I also never made any comments, positive or negative, on your play because that’s not what it was about.

I WAS JUST LOOKING FOR INFORMATION.

In the hand in question I wasn’t in a situation where I couldn’t wait for the button to go by and hope to hit a hand in the next round. And I wondered what you thought I would choose to raise all my chips with at this time. I wondered what you thought my hand might be and if that had figured in your decision to call. And I had hoped that, if you replied, that information would be in your reply. And I got what I was looking for.

You did reply. And I got my answer. The lack of any mention about what you thought I might hold answered one of my questions. You answered the questions I had in my head. I was quite happy that you had answered my question and I sent you a “Thank you” reply.

I’m still not looking to get into a discussion about that particular hand. I don’t care what anyone else thinks about that particular hand. I just wanted your input. And I wasn’t looking to create a side thread here.

sarge
 
Old
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Thu Nov 21, 2002, 09:50 PM
(#12)
Deleted user
sgt, THis makes me laugh, funny how u had a bunch of side thoughts but only one question for me, but then as u rite u state that u had a another question, I am not going to get into a pissing match with u. I took it very personal that i took the time outa my life to type u a email and explain not only my rational but a kinda detailed thought process and what , why and when, scenerio and then i get a frivoulous (sp) thanks freddie return. I turn on the forum and low and behold ur HOT, and funny how it is basically the same situation that u just emailed me about. well u had to express ur opionon on this forum so u musta not been to happ y with my rational or answer so as i see it u addressed the community rite after u addressed me, dont know why especially if ur happy about somthing. to me the sorry explanation is useless. why bitch and complain about something that is common place here. i dont mind someone questioning my play anda if i make a mistake i love for someoen to comment, I dont need to hide dislike this chatter. I dont take it personal i also feel like crap when i get drawn out on for what ever reason but such is poker.

Let me end this ive written more to u than i have all year. If u take all this personal sorry, but allota time the truth hurts. I think threads like these are counter productive, if u trying to make the weaker players feel bad , I dont think the majority of players here really care, u have proved ur self time and time again, urrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr one of the best with live wins to prove it. Im gonna leave it at this i will not reply again. But i do ask if u everrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr have a question about my game
ask me at that point in the game that way we can hash it out rite then and there.

ur friend
 
Old
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Thu Nov 21, 2002, 09:55 PM
(#13)
Deleted user
I remember a post a couple months back (can't remember the players name) in which a player stated his digust with people saying "gl everyone" or some such right at the beginning of the tournament. He thought it was the wrong thing for people to say because poker is a skill game. He was blasted in responses, rather vehemently, for his impudence in telling people that this behavior must stop.

We all have pet peeves; that doesn't mean we can impose our will on everyone else. Some people say sorry just about everytime they bust someone, some may say "lol". Not much you can really do about it. You can not like it all you want, and you can certainly respond with "you can stuff your sorries in a sack" or something along those lines if you wish. But to come to the forum to tell everyone that this must stop....

A good question to ask yourself is what information can I gain from this player's statements. Are they saying sorry, as in Freddie's case, because they consider you a friend and are simply sorry that the situation you two were involved in saw your elimination from the tournament? Or are they one, as Shadrak mentions, who says it sarcastically after knocking out one of the "big guns". This is useful information, if you did not already know that this player likes to take "shots" and tries to get lucky against big hands. You can make a lot of money from that player. Maybe another player who says sorry a lot is somewhat timid and feels bad that they "ruined" someone else's night, something that can also be useful to know. Behavior at the table often reveals much more about the player than appears on the surface.

I would also guess, sarge, after that post, you'll be hearing sorry said to you at the tables sarcastically for some time to come, just witness the replies here to that effect.

--Greagar
 
Old
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Fri Nov 22, 2002, 05:23 AM
(#14)
Deleted user
It upsets me when someone calls into question my personal integrity. I don't lie and I take it personally when someone calls me a liar. My reason for writing my original post was exactly what I said it was.

Part of my philosophy on life has to do with not apologizing. I believe apologies are are a total waste of time. I don't give them and I don't accept them. To me apologizing is a negative response to a situation and totally self defeating behavior. We're all human beings who make mistakes and when we make a mistake apogizing is like saying, "I'm sorry I'm a human being who makes mistakes." I also don't believe that I have the right to accept responsibility for another person's feelings so if someone chooses to have hurt feelings about something I've said or done I won't allow them to make me responsible for how they are feeling. And expecting me to apologize is a waste of time because it's not going to happen. I have done my best to eliminate this type of self defeating behavior fom my life. And that is the reason I wrote the post that started this thread. And when I said I was hot it was true, but I wasn't hot at freddie.

I have spent the last year watching people type in "sorry" more times than I care to remember. I think it's disgusting and that's why I wrote the post in the first place. I was just hoping that I might get some people to stop saying "sorry". Turns out I should have just left it alone. More stupid pills. But the one thing I want to get straight is that this was not in response to what freddie typed in after our hand.

The hand that brought it to a head happened in a later tournament. I'm not sure but I think Randy (rggator) was at the table when the hand I'm referring to went down. He might remember it. Don't know who else was there but it doesn't really make any difference. And it was also a coincidence that the hands so closely resembled each other.

The timing turned out to be quite a coincidence also. It never occurred to me that freddie would take offence until I read his reply to my original post. At the risk of repeating myself, my original post was not because of freddie.

And that's the truth.

And, even though I mentioned it in my email to freddie, it was not the reason for my sending that email.

And that's the truth.

I have included that email below exactly as it was sent.



"Hey freddie,

How's it going?

The other day near the end of a tournament I was small stacked as usual. You were in one of the blinds (can't remember which one) and I was utg.

I had (A,A) and put my whole stack in (not a huge bet but a substantial one). There was one caller and then you called with (Q,J). You won the pot and I was eliminated.

I rarely get involved in discussions about the hand when I get knocked out of tournament. I usually just shut the software down and move on but before I left the game I noticed your comment.

You typed: "Sorry cyber, too much money."

Now, don't misunderstand me. I have no problem with your call. I will win that confrontation 85% of the time and that's a good bet. I do have a pet peeve about people apologizing when they put a beat on someone else but that isn't my question either. My question isn't about your call rather it's about your comment and that question is:

If I had been able to turn my hand face up after I made the bet, would you still have made the call?

Take care.....sarge"



In your last post you wrote:
Quote:
THis makes me laugh, funny how u had a bunch of side thoughts but only one question for me
What bunch of side thoughts are you talking about. I really did have only one question for you and I asked it at the end of my email. I wanted to know, if I had been able to turn my Aces face up if there would still have been "too much money" for you to not have made the call.

And that's the truth.

You also wrote:
Quote:
I took it very personal that i took the time outa my life to type u a email and explain not only my rational but a kinda detailed thought process and what , why and when, scenerio and then i get a frivoulous (sp) thanks freddie return.
The reason I didn't reply in detail was because, as I stated, I was just looking for the rationale behind your play. When I sent you the email I wasn't putting you down or suggesting that I thought it was a bad play. If you read that into it there's nothing I can do about it. That's all it was. And that's why I only asked the one question. You explained your rationale and I thanked you for it.

And that's the truth.

Oh, and excuse me for taking up so much time out of your life. Sometimes I'm so inconsiderate.

You also wrote:
Quote:
I turn on the forum and low and behold ur HOT, and funny how it is basically the same situation that u just emailed me about.
Actually it's not funny but it really was a coincidence because my post wasn't about you whether you believe it or not. And, even though I metioned it in my email to you, my email wasn't written to complain about "sorry".

And that's the truth.

You also wrote:
Quote:
I think threads like these are counter productive, if u trying to make the weaker players feel bad , I dont think the majority of players here really care
I wasn't trying to make anyone feel bad. I was trying to make a point in hopes that some people might stop the practice of typing "sorry".

And that's the truth.

And finally you wrote:
Quote:
But i do ask if u everrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr have a question about my game ask me at that point in the game that way we can hash it out rite then and there.
Well freddie you don't everrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr have to worry about it because now that you've called me a liar I won't everrrrrrrrrrrrr discuss anything with you again.

And that's the truth.

And I also am done with this thread.

sarge
 
Old
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Fri Nov 22, 2002, 11:07 AM
(#15)
Deleted user
Sgt: Do you have any children? If the answer is in the affirmative are you teaching them to NEVER say I'm sorry.

According to your last post I'm assuming that this would be the case.


Oh, what a sad world this is coming to.

Joybell
 
Old
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Fri Nov 22, 2002, 01:12 PM
(#16)
Deleted user
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtcyber
Part of my philosophy on life has to do with not apologizing. I believe apologies are are a total waste of time. I don't give them and I don't accept them. To me apologizing is a negative response to a situation and totally self defeating behavior. We're all human beings who make mistakes and when we make a mistake apogizing is like saying, "I'm sorry I'm a human being who makes mistakes." I also don't believe that I have the right to accept responsibility for another person's feelings so if someone chooses to have hurt feelings about something I've said or done I won't allow them to make me responsible for how they are feeling. And expecting me to apologize is a waste of time because it's not going to happen. I have done my best to eliminate this type of self defeating behavior fom my life.
Wow.
 
Old
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Fri Nov 22, 2002, 01:57 PM
(#17)
Deleted user
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtcyber
I also don't believe that I have the right to accept responsibility for another person's feelings so if someone chooses to have hurt feelings about something I've said or done I won't allow them to make me responsible for how they are feeling.
sarge
What if you are responsible for 'how they are feeling'. Say your dog bites an infant in the park, or your car has a brake failure due to your negligence and injures someone..? etc ...

Accepting responsibility for one's own actions includes accepting that one might sometimes be at fault, and apologising is often a correct response in such a situation. It is also often the right way to help the victims of one's errors.

Sounds like a cold,cold world you inhabit Sgt.
 
Old
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Fri Nov 22, 2002, 05:03 PM
(#18)
Deleted user
i must reply to this last statement by Sgt.
Quote:
Part of my philosophy on life has to do with not apologizing. I believe apologies are are a total waste of time. I don't give them and I don't accept them. To me apologizing is a negative response to a situation and totally self defeating behavior. We're all human beings who make mistakes and when we make a mistake apogizing is like saying, "I'm sorry I'm a human being who makes mistakes." I also don't believe that I have the right to accept responsibility for another person's feelings so if someone chooses to have hurt feelings about something I've said or done I won't allow them to make me responsible for how they are feeling. And expecting me to apologize is a waste of time because it's not going to happen. I have done my best to eliminate this type of self defeating behavior fom my life.
not only do you need to apologize in real life situations to real people at times; but you need to understand people expect apologies in certain instances. this doesn't make you any less of a good person, it makes you MORE. the poker table incident is, as i described in my last post....unknown behavior from a person without a face. but if you do a wrong to someone in real life, you are the responsible party who has the chance to redeem yourself by a simple apology.

Shadrak
Time is the fire we all burn in
 
Old
Default
Fri Nov 22, 2002, 11:27 PM
(#19)
Deleted user
Quote:
If I had been able to turn my hand face up after I made the bet, would you still have made the call?
Freddie's answer would have been yes, as it should be.

With regards wanting people to not say sorry, and eliminate this negative behaviour from our actions. If you explain why it is a negative thing, then maybe you will influence people to follow your suggestion. I do actually remember reading something about this in some self-improvement type book, and it made good sense. However, I do not actually remember what the book said. Would you care to educate us as to why it is a good thing to eliminate?
 
Old
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Sat Nov 23, 2002, 06:22 AM
(#20)
Deleted user
I have to agree in part with SgtCyber on the subject of people's feelings being hurt. No one's feelings can become "hurt", unless that person chooses to allow his/her feelings to be hurt. For example, when Zipman tells me how bad I'm playing, I could choose to accept his comments as threatening, and become sad, mad, etc.,,,or I could choose to look at his comments for what they REALLY are, which are simply rantings of a deranged mind! (lol!! J/K Zip!! JUST an example! Ahahaha). So, in a sense, it IS partly my fault for allowing a negative emotion to arise in any situation. But, I DO NOT believe that this releases me from owing someone an apology, if an action of mine hurts this person in any way. To me, an apology is something that I FEEL, and not something that is automatic. If I do or say something that offends/hurts someone, my fault or not, right or wrong, I may feel sorry for my actions. In this case, I WILL apologize. Nothing negative in this at all, in my opinion. Sometimes, I may apologize even if I am NOT sorry, if the situation warrants. If swallowing a little of my pride can help another human being feel a little better, then HOW can I possibly be hurting myself? Having an attitude of NEVER apologizing, for anything, or any situation, is not a way I would like to live my life. I am human and I do make mistakes, but this in no way gives me a right to feel like I am never at fault for anything.
As for the ORIGINAL "meat" of this message, I also feel like the "sorry" response, for when someone beats you at the tables is ridiculous. This is poker, and taking someone else's money is what the game is all about. If playing the game and winning makes someone "sorry", maybe they should take up another hobby! BUT,,,even if someone says they're "sorry", after taking away all of my chips,,,isn't it MY choice to allow this to upset me?? Couldn't I choose to let the "I'm sorry" response roll off my back and ignore it?
 

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