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AK in SB - against big shove on the river

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AK in SB - against big shove on the river - Sun Feb 10, 2013, 07:05 AM
(#1)
6attitude9's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 20
Hi

The villain was playing 50/0/0 over 43 hands. AF 2.1 He usually limped and call raises and kinda of a calling station when he hit some part of the board.
This was the first time he opened for a raise, he made it 5x so I thought he had at least a good pair TT+ or AQ+.
I had recently some big losses with AK, in HM2 it shows that AKs is the hand that I lost most money with and basically when I add the AKo I brake even.
For this reason I just decided to flat and keep the pot small. I figured if I hit a good flop he can continue his aggression and my hand will be more disguised this way.
On the flop I checked back and he didn't Cbet.
The turn was a blank so I bet / he calls.
River pairs the board but I thought that I am still ahead so I bet. Villain ships the rest of his stack.
Here I am behind AA, KK, and ahead of TT, JJ, QQ. I didn't think he raised pre with 88,99,44 I thought he would limp those hands given the way he played before. Also he could do this with AK.
But usually the weak players if hold AA or KK in this spot and hit the flop they tend to slow-play and do this kind of shoves on the river to try and get the value they missed by not betting previous streets.
I wasn't paying allot of attention to the guy before so I don't know if he bluffs in spots like this.
So any thoughts on river action, was the fold good ar is any value in calling against a weak player here ?



Last edited by 6attitude9; Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 10:27 AM..
 
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Sun Feb 10, 2013, 10:26 AM
(#2)
Fadyen's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,917
Against an opponent that is playing 50/0 who suddenly raises 5x I'm just folding pre. He seems like a very weak player and almost certainly has a monster hand here. I think I want to just punish his loose passive tendencies and not give him any action and pay him off when he clearly has a hand. Certainly not out of position anyway. If we were in position with a hand that could crack aces or kings I might call. Smaller pairs to set mine or suited connector type hands. Hands we can get value from if we hit big but that are easy to get away from if we know we're behind.



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Last edited by Fadyen; Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 10:29 AM..
 
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Sun Feb 10, 2013, 11:25 AM
(#3)
KKNgroup's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 70
Why not reraising villain preflop to get impression of his strenght? I would do that in this case, because if calling, you can not define his range.
 
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Sun Feb 10, 2013, 11:54 AM
(#4)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
1st ever raise over 43 hands means the best we can hope for on this river is a chop. other than that he has us crushed.

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Sun Feb 10, 2013, 11:54 AM
(#5)
6attitude9's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by KKNgroup View Post
Why not reraising villain preflop to get impression of his strenght? I would do that in this case, because if calling, you can not define his range.

If I reraise him preflop I think he will continue with everything he raised pre, he is not the kind of villain that folds preflop (especially after he raised).
If he 4bets than I know I'm behind and fold. But most likely he will call and then I will be in a inflated pot oop without having allot more info on his range.
 
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Sun Feb 10, 2013, 04:26 PM
(#6)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,359
I'd sometimes fold pre, but most of the time I play this hand the same way as you. When someone who hardly ever raises (be they a 50/2 LP or a 9/3 nit) opens pre-flop, you have to give them credit for a big hand. I'd put this guy on QQ+ and AK. He might not even raise AK, so you're just hoping to out flop queens.
So flat and see what the flop brings, looking to get just one or two streets of value. (If the pot gets big in this situation, you're usually losing it).

You made TPTK and he checked. His hand looks a lot like QQ, so you can bet small on the turn. I find that players who seldom raise get attached to their pocket pairs when they get overcarded on the flop. He'll call the turn bet, because he's married to his queens.
3/5 of pot on the river is a nice valuebet, as this guy is likely to make a crying call with QQ/JJ.

His shove is quite shocking. This is either a desperate bluff with an underpair, or he got tricky with KK+ and slowplayed until the safe river. Many loose/fish like getting fancy with their monster hands, even though it means they don't win as much money.

Unless I already had a note that this guy makes spazzy river bluffs, I'm folding here.

Note that if he had KK or AA, he won the minimum on this hand. Playing ABC and betting 3 streets might well have doubled him up, but his fancy play meant he only got 55c out of you.
 
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Sun Feb 10, 2013, 11:25 PM
(#7)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Hey all,

Nice discussion.

I agree with the majority feeling here, Arty sums it up well imo. 43 hands is a terribly small sample size from which to draw any solid conclusions, but the stats of 50/0 are so extreme that I think we can at least peg this guy reasonably as loose-passive. This is not a player who I think would even be capable of turning QQ or JJ into a bluff by shoving. I think we're getting shown AA or KK here like all the time. At least, way more than the price we're getting to make the call.

I like your line of value betting turn and river.

@KKN, he's already defined his range for us. He raised. If he had limped (and called our raise after we punished his limp) his range would be fairly large and undefined.


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