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How do you label your villains

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How do you label your villains - Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:06 PM
(#1)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
So just came across a player i had labeled TAG he has stats of 11/9/4 over 1.2k hands so i just relabelled him NIT but i normally concider a NIT to be under a VPIP of 10, (for full ring)
for me (at the moment)


NIT 10/6 and under/ over
TP 19/8 and under / under
TAG 22/14 under/over
LP 20/9 and up /under
LAG 23/15 and up/up
MANIAC 35/24 up/up

I also have LP sub catorgary for a calling station who once they hit something will not fold,

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:16 PM
(#2)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
I recently purchased Notecaddy but I need to tweak it, games I play vary vastly.

I use 4 colours.

Loose Passive calling station= Blue
Loose Aggresive Raising Stations= Orange
Rocks = Purple
Sharks = Red = me I have too many reds in my database which colours too many. I need to work on this.


Bracelet Winner
 
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Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:33 PM
(#3)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
I was surprised but have to say I see a lot of TAGs at 5nl which surprised me.


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:38 PM
(#4)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
I've said before, it's rare in SnGs but I would imagine it would happen more at cash but if you have a table full of TAGs then you should be the maniac. Loosen up and raise until they start playing back at you.

Who cares what your image is, as long as YOU know then you can play the player.


Bracelet Winner
 
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Sun Feb 10, 2013, 10:13 PM
(#5)
RedLetterman's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 665
Have no idea what 11 / 9 / 4 means.
 
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Sun Feb 10, 2013, 10:41 PM
(#6)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedLetterman View Post
Have no idea what 11 / 9 / 4 means.
honestly wh throws their shoe....

wait what was te question

11/9/4

VPIP/pr/3b

or

11 = vounatary puts money in the poy (ie plays hands..

9 = preflop raises

4= 3 bets

grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sun Feb 10, 2013, 11:43 PM
(#7)
RedLetterman's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grade b View Post
So just came across a player i had labeled TAG he has stats of 11/9/4 over 1.2k hands
So....11 times in 1,200 hands he voluntarily put money in the middle?
Seeing as how he only played 11 out of 1,200 hands it must mean that the next number (9) means that out of the 11 times he put money in the pot he did so 9 of those times with pre flop raises.
Furthermore, as for the third number: 4 of those were 3 bets, which sound similar to pre flop raises.

Still confused, and now I have a headache.



If you were in striking distance I'd be taking off my shoe.....

Last edited by RedLetterman; Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 11:44 PM.. Reason: George W inspired....and still confused.
 
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Mon Feb 11, 2013, 05:29 AM
(#8)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
The stats are % not absolute figures-

so 20/10 is 20% VPIP 10% PFR

third figure is usually preset as aggression frequency, but looks like grade b has his set as 3-bet %

Ed
 
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Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:02 AM
(#9)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
My current system

everybody immediately gets a note of the game type/date and they are coloured yellow

eg $1.10MTT 11/02/2013 New Player to Note (yellow)

then as I get reads the colour gets changed to

Red TAG 10-20/10-20
Orange LAG 20+/20+
Green Loose Passive 20+/10+
Light Blue Tight Passive 20-/10-
Dark Blue Nit 10-/10-

I don't use a different colour for calling stations - that just gets added as a note

I consider somebody passive if they raise less than half the hands they play - so 40/18 loose passive even though raising 18% - whereas 18/18 TAG again raising 18% - this is where you have to be aware what your own system means and adjust accordingly.

Mostly I play Full R?ing MTTs - so if I am playing different formats I will adjust

I have special colours for League players

Pink = OSL
Orange = Premier League
Grey = UKIPT Leagues

these are because of how differently these games play - so eg stats on a OSL player will often look nittier - all these players get notes as the colour is a general identifier.

Ed
 
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Tue Feb 12, 2013, 12:07 PM
(#10)
RedLetterman's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 665
Thanks Ed,

Nice to have someone here to translate the stats gathered from (I assume) a HUD, something many (most?) of us here do not use. Similarly, most of us here were never stenos adept at shorthand. Such all too often unexplained or ambiguous descriptors have a hand in keeping newbies away from sites such as 1plus1, in my opinion.

I've never understood how someone could take a moment or 3 to post yet find it too awkward or time consuming to speak plain English. If the inclination is to respond to this by saying it is part of the poker culture then any further rejoinder by me would have to include a suggestion to read some plain spoken Maggie Mead.

As for the second post, it was a partly tongue in cheek reply to b's gaping explanation. It describes the nittiest of nits, one who is raked off or blinded out by playing 11 hands in 2500.

I'm not slagging anyone here, so don't take offense. I just appreciate plain English.
 
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Tue Feb 12, 2013, 06:47 PM
(#11)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedLetterman View Post
Thanks Ed,

Nice to have someone here to translate the stats gathered from (I assume) a HUD, something many (most?) of us here do not use. Similarly, most of us here were never stenos adept at shorthand. Such all too often unexplained or ambiguous descriptors have a hand in keeping newbies away from sites such as 1plus1, in my opinion.

I've never understood how someone could take a moment or 3 to post yet find it too awkward or time consuming to speak plain English. If the inclination is to respond to this by saying it is part of the poker culture then any further rejoinder by me would have to include a suggestion to read some plain spoken Maggie Mead.

As for the second post, it was a partly tongue in cheek reply to b's gaping explanation. It describes the nittiest of nits, one who is raked off or blinded out by playing 11 hands in 2500.

I'm not slagging anyone here, so don't take offense. I just appreciate plain English.
don't do plain gov, so soss.

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Tue Feb 12, 2013, 07:23 PM
(#12)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
In the spirit of inclusion I have had my secretary translate the original post.

Ladies and gentlemen,
When enjoying myself this evening, playing that game of skill know as "no limit Hold'em poker", I happened to find myself on a table with a chap I happen to have played before. Now I recall when previously playing with the chap that he plays a tight and aggressive style, only playing a few hands per orbit, and when he does mostly playing said cards for a raise.
Fortunately for me I made some notes on Hands that I was luckily enough to witness to the showdown. Upon reviewing this notes I decided to Change my personal colour code for the chap from purple (my colour of choice for chaps I feel play a TAG that is "tight aggressive" style) to Red (my code for a NIT that is an overly tight player who is only playing the very best starting hands). This lead me to wonder what exactly statistically speaking is a NIT.
I logged on the poker school online to see if the nice people there could throw some light on this interesting conundrum. But wait there Grade b I thought to myself why stop there why not see what they think about all villain types.
so for myself what do I think....well I guess
A NIT- an overly cautious player will be playing less than one hand per orbit of a full ring table and raising and re-raising when they do play due to the great strength of the hands they choose to play. (I code them RED)
A tight passive player - a cautious player playing up to (on average) 2 hands per orbit of a full ring table but rarely rising preferring rather to match the bet that is currently in play.(I code them light blue)

Tight aggressive Player - cautious player playing up to (on average) 2 hands per orbit of a full ring table and more often than not making a raise in the amount needed to continue in the hand. (I code them purple)
Loose passive player - a player playing (on average) 3 hands or more per orbit of a full ring table but rarely rising preferring rather to match the bet that is currently in play. (I code them green)
Loose aggressive player - a player playing (on average) 3 hands or more per orbit of a full ring table and more often than not making a raise in the amount needed to continue in the hand. ( I could them Orange)
Maniac- a player who raises and plays 4 hands or more per orbit usually for a raise ( I code them aqua)

I was wondering if you good people used any method to not the tendencies of the people that you play against and what sort of information do you use in order to draw these conclusions.

All the best

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Tue Feb 12, 2013, 08:47 PM
(#13)
RedLetterman's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grade b View Post
In the spirit of inclusion I have had my secretary translate the original post.

Ladies and gentlemen,
When enjoying myself this evening, playing that game of skill know as "no limit Hold'em poker", I happened to find myself on a table with a chap I happen to have played before. Now I recall when previously playing with the chap that he plays a tight and aggressive style, only playing a few hands per orbit, and when he does mostly playing said cards for a raise.
Fortunately for me I made some notes on Hands that I was luckily enough to witness to the showdown. Upon reviewing this notes I decided to Change my personal colour code for the chap from purple (my colour of choice for chaps I feel play a TAG that is "tight aggressive" style) to Red (my code for a NIT that is an overly tight player who is only playing the very best starting hands). This lead me to wonder what exactly statistically speaking is a NIT.
I logged on the poker school online to see if the nice people there could throw some light on this interesting conundrum. But wait there Grade b I thought to myself why stop there why not see what they think about all villain types.
so for myself what do I think....well I guess
A NIT- an overly cautious player will be playing less than one hand per orbit of a full ring table and raising and re-raising when they do play due to the great strength of the hands they choose to play. (I code them RED)
A tight passive player - a cautious player playing up to (on average) 2 hands per orbit of a full ring table but rarely rising preferring rather to match the bet that is currently in play.(I code them light blue)

Tight aggressive Player - cautious player playing up to (on average) 2 hands per orbit of a full ring table and more often than not making a raise in the amount needed to continue in the hand. (I code them purple)
Loose passive player - a player playing (on average) 3 hands or more per orbit of a full ring table but rarely rising preferring rather to match the bet that is currently in play. (I code them green)
Loose aggressive player - a player playing (on average) 3 hands or more per orbit of a full ring table and more often than not making a raise in the amount needed to continue in the hand. ( I could them Orange)
Maniac- a player who raises and plays 4 hands or more per orbit usually for a raise ( I code them aqua)

I was wondering if you good people used any method to not the tendencies of the people that you play against and what sort of information do you use in order to draw these conclusions.

All the best

Grade b
Farkin' brilliant rejoinder, despite the sarcasm.
 
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Tue Feb 12, 2013, 09:53 PM
(#14)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
why thank you sir,

I shall aim for something in the middle when creating any new posts.

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Tue Feb 12, 2013, 11:26 PM
(#15)
EvokeNZ's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 557
That was really helpful grade b (and redletterman for instigation). I recently had a hand reviewed in tournament review forum and when I read the evaluation this morning I actually put it off until I get home as I couldn't immediately understand it. I'm sure it's valuable advice, so maybe your secretary could reword it for me?
Also is it possible to get these stats without a HUD? I've used a few trial versions but these expire as I'm just getting used to them. Some have so many options I get lost.
 
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Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:37 AM
(#16)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvokeNZ View Post
That was really helpful grade b (and redletterman for instigation). I recently had a hand reviewed in tournament review forum and when I read the evaluation this morning I actually put it off until I get home as I couldn't immediately understand it. I'm sure it's valuable advice, so maybe your secretary could reword it for me?
Also is it possible to get these stats without a HUD? I've used a few trial versions but these expire as I'm just getting used to them. Some have so many options I get lost.

I'll be happy to do a translation if you can direct me to the post, I will.

What redletterman and my slightly over the top translation were saying is it is posible just by observation to Label the type of player someone is. Admittedly it is harder for me but much easier for someone like Sandtrap777 and i guess redletterman. I don't want to put words in their months but notes might be along the lines of

Over plays top play on the flop can't find a flod with top pair, do not try a bluff.

or will only continue with a strong made hand easy to bluff fold if they re-raise

something more practical to the type of play that they have seen the player doing.

I know thats harder in zoom but you can hit the sitout next hand button and then in the replayer make notes on any strange play you observe, (something I have just started to do)

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
Old
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Wed Feb 13, 2013, 12:32 PM
(#17)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvokeNZ View Post
That was really helpful grade b (and redletterman for instigation). I recently had a hand reviewed in tournament review forum and when I read the evaluation this morning I actually put it off until I get home as I couldn't immediately understand it. I'm sure it's valuable advice, so maybe your secretary could reword it for me?
Also is it possible to get these stats without a HUD? I've used a few trial versions but these expire as I'm just getting used to them. Some have so many options I get lost.

ok I found the hand I think and have included a translaton below
Okay to start the play Your raised in early position and everyone folds except for the Small Blind.
On the flop you have top pair and top kicker(TPTK) and the flop has jack of diamonds king of diamonds and the 3 of spades showing. You make a bet for value hoping that a player who has a worse hand than you will still call. This should be possible if Brier Rose has 2 diamonds in their hand or if they have two high cards like an Ace and a Ten (so a Queen will make a straight) you may also get a call from a worse one pair hand King with a queen kicker for example.
This does not happen instead Brier Rose raises you but only makes the raise a little above a minimum raise.
955 chips are in the pot
You have 1800 chips left
Brier Rose has more chips than you. (so he can bust you if he has a better hand.)

What observations have you made about Brier Rose.

If He does not play many hands and always seems to have good hands when he goes all the way then He will most likely have a hand like 2 pair or better – a hand that is currently better than yours. It is possible that he has 3 of a kind most likely Jacks or 3’s (kings are less likely as we have one of the kings but it is possible.) The chances are that if he has one of these hands then he will beat you if you continue.
However if the player is a bit looser and more aggressive(laggy) then he may be raiseing with just one pair 2 diamonds or a draw to a straight. Hands that at the moment you are beating but do stand a good chance to improve to a hand that can beat you.

With the size of the pot and the size of your remaining chips if you are going to play he you should be aware that you are playing for all of your chips (or should be ) in this situation.


Read more: AKh tournament hand - PokerSchoolOnline Forum http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...#ixzz2KnOErnUW


Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
Old
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Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:01 PM
(#18)
EvokeNZ's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 557
Legendary! Thanks heaps. I didn't realise I'd raised for value, I was hoping he had nothing and would fold. Hmm
 
Old
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Wed Feb 13, 2013, 06:15 PM
(#19)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvokeNZ View Post
Legendary! Thanks heaps. I didn't realise I'd raised for value, I was hoping he had nothing and would fold. Hmm

See why do you want a player who has nothing to fold? If he has nothing we would like him to stay in and pay us more money.

By being able to "label" what type of villain we are against we can move the "hope" to a "think / most likely" and be able to act accordingly.

On the flop he you bet for one of 3 reasons (no sorry make that you should bet for 1 of 3 reasons.

1. Bet for value, do this when your sure you have the best hand and a player with a worst hand is likely to call.

2. Bet as a bluff. you do not think you have the best hand but you do think you can make a player who has you beat fold their hand.

3. To pick up the dead money (most often when you make a continuation bet on the flop even though you only hold an A high, but as you raised before the flop you hope that if every one else has missed they will give you the benefit of the dought and fold (most likely as they have missed too)


Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
Old
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Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:16 PM
(#20)
RicJSSousa's Avatar
Since: Aug 2012
Posts: 31
BronzeStar
Great notes there, Grade.
As I don't use a HUD, I make my notes depending on, whether I think they're fishes or not, or if I'm upset with a hand I played with them then I mark them as targets for the next time I find them...:P

I use the notes mostly to find Portuguese players.

I'll consider your notes, but as I don't use a HUD, it's dificult to be as accurate as you are.

Cheers,




 

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