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What is Rat Holing

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What is Rat Holing - Fri Feb 15, 2013, 06:06 PM
(#1)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
Hi all just listened to the pokercast podcast, and they had a guy from PS on as they do.

He mentioned something about doing something to stop Rat Holing and I got the impression that Rat holing was the same as Hot and run. but really not sure..

Grade b


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Fri Feb 15, 2013, 06:14 PM
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Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
It means that you buy in for an amount,win some money,get up and leave (or sit out I guess online) and come back with less than you had.

For example...say you buy in for $2 on a 2NL table,go on a streak,bink it up to $6,are not comfortable leaving your profit in the line of fire,so you sit out,bank the $4 profit and time back in with $2.


That's rat holing.
 
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Fri Feb 15, 2013, 06:17 PM
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iggyo's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 171
The 2 terms are similar in that if the player wins they leave. Hit & run is when they hit a big pot, leave and never come back whereas ratholing is winning small amounts and then standing up and rejoining the same table with the minimum buy-in. Hope that helps!

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Fri Feb 15, 2013, 06:18 PM
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Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
ty Moxie and iggyo, I didn't think that was possible on stars?

Don't you have to wait 90 minutes?

Grade b


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Fri Feb 15, 2013, 06:18 PM
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Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
I listened to the show and never heard of the term before but from what I gathered it's sitting at a table and making a profit and leaving. You then re-join the table with your original bankroll you started with and those profits tucked away?


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Fri Feb 15, 2013, 06:23 PM
(#6)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
so If i win 50% of my buy - in I will usually leave that table and open a new one. Is this the same. Is it bad etiquette or a sensible poker?

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

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Fri Feb 15, 2013, 06:36 PM
(#7)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
I think the gist of the conversation on Pokercast was that some multi tablers are doing this from table to table and avoiding re-joining tables which is a problem. It could really affect heads up or short handed play.

I don't know about cash so it doesn't bother me but it must affect some players.


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Fri Feb 15, 2013, 08:37 PM
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Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grade b View Post
so If i win 50% of my buy - in I will usually leave that table and open a new one. Is this the same. Is it bad etiquette or a sensible poker?

Grade b


NO.

Winning on one table and then leaving to open another would be "hitting and running",as some would describe it.

With "rat-holing",you're winning above your initial buy-in,then banking that money away and staying on the table.

So in the example I provided earlier,you would be sitting with your buy-in,$2,winning an additional $3 to get to $5 total,BANKING the $3 profit and staying at the table with your initial $2. What you're doing is depriving any players who you won off of,or indeed stacked,a chance to get all their money back. And even were you to lose the $2 you left in play you're still banking a $1 profit for the table.

As to "bad etiquette" or sound play...meh,that's subjective really.

IMO it's sensible and sound. I would look to do this in spots where I know,from watching the play and/or previous notes on some of the players on the table,that I have a clear skill advantage over some or all of the players on this table. If the table is more or less staying intact (or more pointedly the players I WANT to play with are staying...)...well,why would I want to leave a favorable table to open another one?

But since anyone can get lucky one hand,it's not sensible for me to win $3 profit and then leave that money at risk. Bank it and try to add to it. Worst comes to worst I've still made a profit,and that's the point.
 
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Fri Feb 15, 2013, 08:44 PM
(#9)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grade b View Post
ty Moxie and iggyo, I didn't think that was possible on stars?

Don't you have to wait 90 minutes?

Grade b


You aren't getting up and leaving the table,then sitting back down at the same. You're sitting out,whilst you bank the money that you want to bank.

I'm pretty sure you can do this,not being able to play for cash here for the last 2 years I'm not certain though.For sure back when I could play for cash here I didn't do this then,really pretty stupid on my part as far as I'm concerned. Your goal NOT being to make the other players at your table happy,but to take their money. And keep every nickel of it that you can.

If this isn't doable then that's something that I would think they should fix,but then again from Stars perspective maybe that wouldn't be a "fix" at all,rake being their objective and all.
 
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Fri Feb 15, 2013, 08:51 PM
(#10)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
ratholing is indeed making money at a table, getting up, then coming back (to that same table) with less than they left with. and yes, at least from what i remember when i could play here, there is a time freeze for returning to the same table with less than you left it. live, if you leave a table , you can then get back on the wait list to return but can not just get up and come back instantly with less than you left with.
my guess is that they were reffering to zoom where this is basically doable, by virtue of the already muli table nature of that game. but not sure what exactly they might have been talking about on the podcast, as i wasn't listening


May the tinfoil protect you. MT
 
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Sun Feb 17, 2013, 02:30 AM
(#11)
RedLetterman's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 665
Ratholers, as I've always understood it, are those who buy in for the minimum (say, 5 bucks instead of 25 bucks) and wait for the moment where they can shove against 1 or more players in a pot. They'll either grab the original blinds and raises or get an all in call from a deep stack. They risk the minimum and hope to double up then leave.

It isn't about leaving and returning to the same table, as far as I know. Ratholers disrupt the table. At a 6 max if a ratholer sits someone will often leave or sit out. If a ratholer wins and leaves it again disrupts the flow.

Why would I want to get involved in a pot with another deep stack only to have a ratholer behind me possibly go all in? I was willing to risk 1.50 and call another deep stack to see a flop only to have Ivan ratfink go all in for 7 bucks. We're playing poker. Ratfink is playing a different game altogether. He gets us to fold, grabs our 3 bucks as well as the blinds and scoots.

Ratholers are evil. A lot of them playing Zoom, but that's a different ballgame. They don't disrupt any tables in Zoom.
 
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Fri Mar 08, 2013, 04:19 PM
(#12)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,479
(Head Trainer)
Rat holing is taking money off the table without leaving the game, like the example given here where you run $2 up to $6, then get up and sit back down with $2 on the same table. There is a time freeze to prevent it online. They were talking about Zoom in the podcast, where you can just close down your entry to the player pool and then reenter with a new buy in.

I've seen people try to rathole live too, they don't even get up from the table, they try to "go south" with some money (take it off the table). This is not allowed, if someone sees them the dealer or floor (if necessary) will make them put that money back on the table. They are never obligated to play with money they've won of course, but if they want to take it off the table they must take it all off and quit the game.


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Wed Oct 16, 2013, 09:47 AM
(#13)
missy mama3's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 11
lol thought this was funny had to check it out ratholing
 
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Wed Oct 16, 2013, 09:47 AM
(#14)
missy mama3's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 11
never heard of it at my local casino or online
 
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Wed Oct 16, 2013, 12:05 PM
(#15)
GamblingProp's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 714
Try not to go south.
 
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Wed Oct 16, 2013, 01:38 PM
(#16)
Profess Awe's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,579
Quote:
Originally Posted by missy mama3 View Post
never heard of it at my local casino or online
Go to any full ring 25NL + regular table on pokerstars you will soon see ratholing in action.

Speaking of which Stars has funny ideas of what soon means, cos we are still waiting for the measures to try and stop it.
 
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Wed Oct 16, 2013, 03:02 PM
(#17)
USA79's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 6
[QUOTE=Profess Awe;454810]Go to any full ring 25NL + regular table on pokerstars you will soon see ratholing in action.

Speaking of which Stars has funny ideas of what soon means, cos we are still waiting for the measures to try and stop it.

The Rat-holing was fixed months ago in an Update. (or at least on my Account ,which is play money) If a player/s wins money At a FR table or 6ring table . Which is profit, and He/she leaves the table they must return with the same amount they left with.
 
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Wed Oct 16, 2013, 04:07 PM
(#18)
Profess Awe's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,579
Are we talking same table? Rat holers take there money and buy back in on a different table.
 
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Wed Oct 16, 2013, 06:02 PM
(#19)
brettnz's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 377
Rat holing is an issue on most sites,I thought Stars had so software to cover it ? obv not yet,I know when you time out in zoom and get removed from pool if you return yr over stack comes back with you. But if you stand and leave ,then return it seems not,think others have covered what is and isnt ratholing,one more term we use live is "heading south" a Doyle favourite saying,when you hit and run .Its a sure fire way to be a victim of a "hit and run" in the car-park on the way out lol.- 2plus2 have plenty of threads on this lately as its an issue that was to be brought up at the Stars/players/stakeholders meeting at Isle of Man HQ .


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Sat Oct 19, 2013, 08:58 AM
(#20)
Profess Awe's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,579
Posted by: WilliamPrieto
On: 10-18-2013 05:57 PM

---Quote (Originally by FR-Nit)---
Ratholer-solution?????
---End Quote---
I think they will become fools about it for the rest of 2013 and will implement it at january-february of 2014.
************

Don't hold your breath waiting to see it.
 

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