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5NL - mid set in multiway pot on connected flop

5NL - mid set in multiway pot on connected flop - Sat Feb 16, 2013, 07:34 AM
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
Hi PSO-ers,

I'm not super happy with how I played this hand, so I'm looking for some advice on optimal play.

I think I was somewhat "scared" from made hands on that flop and decided to flat the flop bet to not bloat the pot and see a safe turn card (no T, 6, or J) before I decide to increase the size of the pot and make sure I don't face aggression.

On the turn, all my criterias were met and the A makes it a great card for me to bet since I will get called by alot of now two pair hands, and AJ, AT type of hands. So I bet big.

On the river though, is it too thin to bet here since now the pot is 4.92 and I have a pot sized bet remaining and any bet will commit me? I don't suppose bet shoving here on the 5s will generate value?

I have no specific reads on any of my opponents and very little stats to make anything significant.

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 05:17 PM
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
Firstly I want to say that you always post really interesting hands with interesting decisions to be made. Keep them coming!

I think you have to raise the flop when you flop a set on a straight-ish (or monotone) flop multiway, in order to get value when you're ahead, and to make it a mistake for multiple weak draws to stay in the pot. (You might be more inclined to slowplay it if you were heads up against a player likely to have a weak hand, as you often need villain to catch up a bit on the turn).

987 is obviously very connected. You're crushed by JT and 65, but still have outs to a boat/quads. Villains are more likely to have hands like AT/KT, so try to get heads up against them and charge them for drawing.

The Ace is a good card to bet big on, as you noted. A flush draw is now out there, so you really don't want there to be three villains still in the pot, as now there are a lot of bad river cards.

One villain check-called the turn, so he probably has a fairly weak holding. It's kind of hard to put him on a range. A decent ace would surely have bet the turn. I don't think villain shows up with a 6 here very often (drawing to the idiot end of a straight when there are 3 connected cards on the flop is a good way to go busto), but he might have backdoored the flush with KTss or something like that. When villain checks the river, he's probably not planning to check-raise with a flush, as he can't be sure you'll bet, so I think he's basically whiffed. In which case, there's no point in betting, as he doesn't have any medium strength hands that can call. So checking behind looks like the only option.

The hand would have been entirely different if you'd raised the flop, but you might not have even seen the turn, so would have ended up with a smaller profit. Villain's line is so passive that I think he shows up with AT, KT or QT most of the time.
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 06:00 PM
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,501
(Head Trainer)
Hi geo,

Preflop flat is good. I would raise it up for sure on the flop. We should basically always proceed as though we have the best hand here, because we usually do. A coordinated board like this we will be able to get action from tons of worse hands. And even when someone flopped the nuts with JT, we have outs/equity. This is not a spot to slowplay, nor to play scared... we called preflop with 88 to flop a set, so let's ride!

Turn bet is good for sure, and checking down the river is ok... it seems really hard to get called by worse hands now. 2 pair will pay us off I assume but the way he played this hand it's really hard to see him having 2 pairs. He's probably got just a ten, or pair+draw that his missed or made the dummy straight... it's too optmistic to think we'll get hero called by 1 pair on this board imo, and also to see him showing up with 2 pair or a set of 7's, so checking is ok.

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Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:46 AM
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
@ArtySmokesPS thanks for your comments. And yea, I do get into alot of these wierd spots; usually I can easily identify my mistakes in clear cut hands which I don't bother to post on PSO, but hands that I have trouble identifiying a good line or a reason I go ahead and drop them here, see what the good guys have to say

@TheLangolier "We should basically always proceed as though we have the beest hand here", what factors will make you not sure you have the best hand anymore?
Like lets say we raise it up, and the BB re-raises, and the CO calls. or raises? When would you start thinking of folding your set on a board like this? I guess that is the type of questions I wanted to avoid when I just call the flop bet. Hence, the term "scared"

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