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Not getting max value out of hands played in a MTT

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Not getting max value out of hands played in a MTT - Sat Feb 16, 2013, 05:17 PM
(#1)
Okapiboy's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 19
I'll post a hand, but I don't know if it clearly illustrates my point.

So I sattelited my way into the Sat Micro (3.3 dollars, 25k Guaranteed)

And I did ok, got in the money but barely.
And one of the main things I noticed about myself was that I only saw 11% of all flops, and when I did get to see the flop, I didn't always got much money out of it. So as the Tourney progressed, basically every coinflip would be a double up or I'm out situation. Luckily enough the 'Out' was in the money, but it would be nice to have more chips and feel safer. If I made the flip (it was AQs vs 55 or something like that, maybe AKo) then next time it'd still be the same, win or be out, as I had about half the chips of anyone on the table.

So this is a hand (just one I wrote down, should've written down more of em where I was bummed out not to get more out of it.



So I had 88, and was pretty sure the other guy had nothing (with the very small bet on the turn), but I was afraid that if I bet, he'd only call if he had something.

Maybe it was unlucky, but where do you guys focus on to increase chipstacks during the tournament. Small amounts can lead to a big one eventually, am I playing too few hands (11% flops seen), or stealing too few blinds?
 
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Sat Feb 16, 2013, 05:30 PM
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**moved to more appropriate forum JWK24**


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Sat Feb 16, 2013, 05:46 PM
(#3)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
You couldn't really get much value from this hand, because both your hand and villain's were weak, but I'd recommend you raise 88 on the button, even if it's a minraise. Don't let the BB see a free flop by limping in. There will be overcards on nearly every flop you see with 88, so you're happy to take the pot down pre-flop with a raise, or can c-bet post-flop and get your value there.

As to the more general question, it's hard to give quick tips on making progress. I've had decent cashes when I've played like a rock (7% VPIP) in the early levels, and when I've lagged it up (20%+). One tournament just doesn't contain enough hands to be a representative sample size.
There is a fair bit of luck involved in having big cashes. You have to win a bunch of flips, sometimes as an underdog. (Winning the main event in the WSOP, usually requires you to be all in about 10 times and not going busto over the course of the tourney). If you're card dead, or just have no luck when you run QQ into AK, then there's not a lot you can do about it.
Learning when to change gears and get aggressive with your short (or big) stack will come with experience, but you can also watch videos or reasearch shoving ranges, so you can find out what hands you should be risking all your chips on at particular stack sizes.
 
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Sat Feb 16, 2013, 06:14 PM
(#4)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Okapiboy View Post
I'll post a hand, but I don't know if it clearly illustrates my point.

So I sattelited my way into the Sat Micro (3.3 dollars, 25k Guaranteed)

And I did ok, got in the money but barely.
And one of the main things I noticed about myself was that I only saw 11% of all flops, and when I did get to see the flop, I didn't always got much money out of it. So as the Tourney progressed, basically every coinflip would be a double up or I'm out situation. Luckily enough the 'Out' was in the money, but it would be nice to have more chips and feel safer. If I made the flip (it was AQs vs 55 or something like that, maybe AKo) then next time it'd still be the same, win or be out, as I had about half the chips of anyone on the table.

So this is a hand (just one I wrote down, should've written down more of em where I was bummed out not to get more out of it.



So I had 88, and was pretty sure the other guy had nothing (with the very small bet on the turn), but I was afraid that if I bet, he'd only call if he had something.

Maybe it was unlucky, but where do you guys focus on to increase chipstacks during the tournament. Small amounts can lead to a big one eventually, am I playing too few hands (11% flops seen), or stealing too few blinds?

Hi Okapiboy.

You need to be raising pre-flop here. If they both fold then that's fine,picking up a couple of BB and change on our 30BB stack here with 88 is a decent result for us as well. The bad result would be letting the SB come along cheap on our limp and the BB come in free and see one of them hit a flop and then we've burned 1BB for no good reason.


I think as played that you're line here is fine. I have a feeling what you really want to ask on this hand is whether you should have bet the river for value. Personally I like checking it down here as we're going to have plenty of showdown value with the 8's,smaller pairs,tons of Ax,Kx,suited cards and connectors are in the villains calling range from the BB in a $3.30 game. If we do put,say or 1/2 pot bet in the middle here...he's almost never calling with worse and if he ships or raises over top of us we could easily end up folding the best hand.

As to chip accumulating chips in an MTT...arty's points pretty much sum it up. I too have had MTT's where I've had good results playing less than 10% of hands and others where I've done well playing 20,even 25%+. Hell you can have runs of 100 hands in just one MTT where you're around 5-7% VPIP and then have the deck start hitting you in the face and VPIP out at 25% or higher for the next 50 hands or so. It happens.

Playing the dynamic of your tables and knowing when to shift gears will come as you play more. You'll need to learn how to get free chips without a fight,or at least much of one,but that's something that will come. One thing to do is take notes where you can as when you build up a good data base of players you'll find yourself more and more landing on tables early in tourneys with players whom you have some ideas on how to exploit. Pay special attention to players who react to the bubble...who opens up and tries to steal every chip they can...who are the bubble watchers,nitting up tight and just looking to turtle to the money...knowing that from the jump about a player or 2 on your table because you previously noted them can pay big dividends later.

Mostly do NOT get frustrated...MTT's are the highest variance of the poker choices. Deep runs don't come along very often so having proper BRM is going to be key.
 
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Sat Feb 16, 2013, 06:52 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
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Hi Okapiboy!

With 88 (or any other hand that I'm first to get involved with), I'm going to make a standard raise, which for this blind level for me, is to 2.5BB+1BB for each limper. With no limpers, I'll raise to 625.

The flop brings a pair and a flush draw and when it checks to me, especially after a preflop raise, I'll make a c-bet of 2/3 pot (650). I want to bet here both for value and to protect my hand against someone wanting to draw to two overcards.

The turn brings an undercard and opp number 2 makes a min-bet of 250. I'm going to raise here to 2/3 pot (1067) for the same reasons that I made my flop bet.

The river brings an overcard and when the opp checks to me, I'm going to check behind here. The opp has called two raises and a flop bet, so they have something and my hand does have showdown value against them.

The key with maximizing value is to be sure to get in all the value bets that I can, when I know that I'm ahead. Also, I try to aim for 20% flops seen, but that number can be much larger or lower, depending on the actual cards that I'm receiving.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


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Sat Feb 16, 2013, 07:07 PM
(#6)
Okapiboy's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 19
Alright, general trend, raise preflop, makes perfect sense, thanks!

And what if someone in front of me called?

Thanks all.
 
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Sat Feb 16, 2013, 07:11 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
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Hi Okapiboy!

I add 1BB to my bet for each player that limps.

John (JWK24)


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Sat Feb 16, 2013, 07:57 PM
(#8)
Okapiboy's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 19
So always a raise there.
And if you were in Early position, or middle, limpers, no limpers?

I find it very hard to play mid-range pocket pairs, I usually never feel ok with how I played them, that's why I'm asking.
 
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Sat Feb 16, 2013, 08:05 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
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It doesn't matter what position I'm in. I may limp behind someone, but if nobody has entered the pot, I'm either raising or folding and not open-limping.

John (JWK24)


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6 Time Bracelet Winner


 

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