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25NL 6-max zoom: KK in 4-bet pot Ahigh board

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25NL 6-max zoom: KK in 4-bet pot Ahigh board - Wed Feb 20, 2013, 06:48 PM
(#1)
f1nlaion's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 64
hi all,

preflop: KK on the btn with a standard 3-bet spot against a 24/22 over 85 hands(no stats on 4-bet frequency). when he 4-bets I decide to flat call to keep his range wide n avoid turning m hand face up with a 5-bet.

flop: Ahigh board as expected. I decide to flat his c-bet since i 'd expect him to do that with his whole range.

turn: a J on the turn that doesn't change much(don't expect him to have KT all that often) n it goes check check.

river: he leads jamms on the J river and I have a decision. i don't see any Aces in his range really since I don't see why he would check the turn with only a bet behind. now what does he rep, a J? possible but not probable...



1. any objections on how we got to the river?
2. is it really a call on the river?
 
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Thu Feb 21, 2013, 12:28 AM
(#2)
Guido-bomb's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 545
Hi f1n,

Pre flop, i may have 5 bet because i think a lot of players would call with worse . But your explanation makes sense to me, so i think its okay to call too. When flop comes A high, i think a fold its not a bad play... but a call makes some sense as you reasoned.. by the river i guess id never call that big of a bet because a lot of the hands in his range are beating me.

Just my view... Good luck
 
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Thu Feb 21, 2013, 06:36 AM
(#3)
GarethC23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,273
Hi f1n

I think you should definitely five-bet here. Five betting accomplishes a few things, including making your range to five-bet stronger if it includes AK/QQ hands.

Another point is that there is so much money in the pot preflop already once he makes the four bet that it doesn't matter that our hand is "face up."

So unless you have reason to believe his four-bet range is insanely wide AND you think he will monkey off with that range post, I would five bet instead of four betting. Since you didn't know either of these things were going to be the case I'd stick with that.

Postflop its not even clear that you should call on the flop. This is a pretty bad flop for your hand versus his range. All sorts of hands he four-bets have you in really bad shape.

The turn is definitely a check.

The river I would fold. You ask, why would he check the turn with an ace? I ask you, why would he bluff the river after he gave up on the turn? Or was his plan to bluff elaborately by checking the turn, seeing that you are weak by checking, then bluffing the river all-in on this run out? You don't look like you have a bluffable hand from his perspective -- it looks like you are always calling the river the way you played the hand. So for that reason I would fold.
 
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Thu Feb 21, 2013, 07:43 AM
(#4)
Evgueny13's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 1
I think this is interesting hand. I think first thing that has to be analised thoroughly is why the **** is he min-4beting on the botton position? Is he a retard who 4bets trash or does he have a really huge hand? could he have a hand like J10suited? I think the probability he is a retard is low (perhaps 5%), mediocre hand is possible (maybe 33%), I have a nagging feeling he has AA-JJ, AKsuited with possibility of some random play he may be doing maybe he has a thing for low pocket pairs.
Second thing that has to be analysed is what are you gonna do if A comes on the flop and there is action, or even worse if A doesnt come and he goes all in or traps you with set or whatever else.

I soppose you are looking for a situation where he has AJ and J52 rainbow comes on the board and you bet 3 streets and get called down. The possibility of that is quite low. Do you on the other hand want to trap with your KK? Probably not. I imagine that in zoom an overpair is not such a strong hand if you really think about it, you don't want the pot getting too big if you have top pair or overpair. But if you make the pot huge preflop and there is no ace on the flop then thats pretty good news for you and bad news for anyone trying to set mine or flush mine.
I imagine, what you wanna do with hand like that is try to sniff out if your opponent has AA and get the pot as big as you can preflop, if that is not going to completely spook your opponent into a fold.

If there is an ace on the flop, then your opponent will extremely likely have an ace and it may be best to think about if you wanna turn your hand into a bluff and represent that ace in order not to get bluffed by your opponent, or just give up because theres no way to know if your opponent is bluffing, he can have an ace very easy.
I soppose when you have a strong pocket pair and an ace comes then you could turn your previously huge hand into a complete bluff and represent that ace and if you get any resistance whatsoever then give it the hell up, as opposed to playing weak and checking and not representing an ace and letting your opponent bluff if he doesnt have and ace. Calculating if you should be betting on an ace high board as a bluff would require the knowledge of how your opponent reacts to such moves and what your opponent has in his range. Without any knowledge I would say it is alot tougher for opponents to be facing a bet by you on an ace high board then to bluff on an ace high board but if they never fold to that then making a bluff is bad move, so I think you have to pay alot of attention how people react to bets on ace high boards (donk bets by the way, your last action was call from big blind)


My thought prossess would be that if he has AA and I **** this hand up against AA I would not be able to live with myself, and it smells like he has AA. And also if he has anything else other than AA then I dont want to give him a free card and suck out on me with an A for example or 99, so I will raise with KK, if the stacks are deep then I 5bet and keep sniffing out AA, and if stacks are mediocre or small then I go all in because a 5bet is so rediculasely strong that it may as well be all in.
 

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