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5NL zoom thin value bet

5NL zoom thin value bet - Thu Feb 21, 2013, 05:59 PM
cattons3's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 16

Its zoom so no player info.

I'm just learning about thin value betting and would like to know your opinions on this hand. My reasoning for betting here is that I believe there are more worse aces he could have and call me with than there are hands that have me beat, I don't think he has a 3 all too often here compared to where he has a worse Ace. Is this sound reasoning? Was this a good bet or shold I have just called?


Thu Feb 21, 2013, 09:08 PM
Guido-bomb's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 545
Hi cattons,

I feel that your opening kind of loose, and that makes it dificult to play the hand . The cbet on the flop is very high, i think it makes dificult to playeres to stick with worse hands. Once he calls, i put him a lot of times on a better ace ,and maybe a flush draw or some pocket pair that doesnt believe you, but these last i think are less, and very little times on a 3.
The nine feels like a good card, cause now we are beating better aces that may call us down two streets. But when the 10 comes and he fires, id feel really uncomfortable, being that hes been very passive; im inclined to think that hes better than AK or AQ; and i dont think raising is the better option, just fold or call.

I like better when the post doesnt show the villains card, i think it makes the opinions more objective.

Good luck
Thu Feb 21, 2013, 09:23 PM
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
I think it is a bad shove on the river. The main reason for this is because I am unable to think of many worse hands that would call. Maybe AK. If he had AK he might worry a hand like AQ or AJ shuts down on river, causing him to decide to bet out. That is about it though, everything else folds to your shove or calls and beats you.

You should be raising river for value or as a bluff. As I said above, very few reasons to bet for value in my opinion. Also, there are two reasons to not turn your hand into a bluff: 1) Villain's donk bet on river is strong, making him less likely to fold. 2) You have a fairly strong hand yourself. Turning it into a bluff wastes it's strength.

uhhhh... hope I was coherent, been working on calculus II all night.
Sat Feb 23, 2013, 09:01 PM
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,517
(Head Trainer)
Hi cattons,

Its zoom so no player info.
It's zoom is not a good excuse by itself for having no player info.

Even though you're not running a hud, you can still have some reads. Take notes on opponents for instance, you might run into them again eventually. How many tables is the villain playing? 1 zoom table more likely a recreational player, 4 zoom tables more likely a regular.

So in this hand, I wouldn't raise him all in. He's check-called flop and turn, and now changes course and leads into you. Why? His bet sizing is a bit less than half the pot, there are a few possibilities:

1) busted club draw... he's bluffing but can't call a raise
2) Weak made hand... he's trying to set his price to showdown, not sure he'll call a shove.
3) Better hand... wants to make sure YOU can't check down and take a free showdown, he'll certainly call the shove now but you'll be beat.

The hands in category #3 might be small suited connectors (his actual holding), A3, AT, 99 (maybe TT but seems unlikely he would call twice with that. Calling once with 99 is believable though).

The real key is how often is he in category 2 AND how often will those call? I think the answer is not very often, since that hand strength probably checks and calls a river bet most of the time rather than leads out. Which leaves him mostly in categories 1 or 3, neither of which you want to be raising.

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