Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Bankroll Builder - Session Feedback /

[JK] Begin with a bang

Old
Default
[JK] Begin with a bang - Mon Mar 04, 2013, 02:34 PM
(#1)
Tallprince's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 21
I want to take part in the Bankroll Builder promotion. pls assign me a Personal Instructor.

Last edited by Tallprince; Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 02:38 PM..
 
Old
Default
Mon Mar 04, 2013, 04:03 PM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,819
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Hi Tallprince,

You are eligible for the Bank Roll Builder promo!

The next thing that you will need to do is to attend one of the 'Getting Started With Pokerstars' live training sessions. Please let me know after you have attended this session.

Also, you can be practicing on the play money NL full ring tables and please post a hand that you were not sure about, using the hand replayer. Here's a short video on how to use the Hand Replayer


John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
Old
Default
Completed Live Training - Wed Mar 06, 2013, 08:38 PM
(#3)
Tallprince's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 21
Hi John,

I have attended the live training for "Getting started with Pokerstars" It was nice and the new thing I learned about is making Notes.

I have also played few play money hands and I want you to guide me by commenting on my play on 4 of those hands.
I want to know how to play when you hit top pair/ 2pairs on the flop but there is also a flush/straight draw on the flop (happened with me quite a few times in recent past).

Am I now eligible for my first bankroll?

Thanks.
 
Old
Default
Wed Mar 06, 2013, 10:47 PM
(#4)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,819
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Hi Tallprince!

Please use the hand replayer and post the hands that you would like for us to comment on in this thread.

Once the hands are posted and analyzed, we'll move onto the next step.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
Old
Default
Pls Analyse Hands - Thu Mar 07, 2013, 12:21 AM
(#5)
Tallprince's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 21














 
Old
Default
Thu Mar 07, 2013, 02:09 PM
(#6)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,819
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Hi Tallprince!

The first thing that I see here is that the first three are from 6-max tables and not FULL RING. Once you earn a buy-in thru this promotion, you need to play only the full ring tables or you will make yourself ineligible for any future buy-ins.

With KT from the BB, I can either check to see a free flop or make a standard raise (3BB+1BB for each limper, which for here with 3 limpers would be to 60). Especially if the opps are calling stations (never fold) or aggressive, I'll check.
The flop is good and bad. Yes, I have two pair, but the board is very coordinated. Someone could easily have a higher two pair, made straight, straight draw, flush draw or even combination draw. Due to having 3 opps in the pot, I'll make a pot-sized bet here (40). I don't want to bet less due to possibly giving the opps the correct odds to outdraw me.
The turn completes a flush, but does give me a nut flush draw if another diamond comes on the river. Since I'm now against only 1 opp, I'll make a 1/2 pot bet here of 40.
The river should be a total blank and once again, since I'm up against one opp, I'll make a 1/2 pot value bet (80).
I try to always size my bets after the flop based on the pot-size and not based on the BB.

Another tip for the K9 hand. Whenever sitting down at a cash table, always wait for the BB. Paying extra BB's to start playing immediately will be a big drain to a player's bankroll over time.
Preflop here since I'm in position, I'm going to make a standard raise preflop (3BB+1BB for each limper). With 3 limpers (including me for posting), I'll raise to 60. I want to try to lower the number of opps in the hand and to get information about what cards the opp could be playing. By limping or checking here, I get absolutely no information about the opp's hand, so I have no clue whether I have the best hand or not.
Once again, I flop 2 pair on a very coordinated board. This time an opp leads into me for 40 chips and I'm going to raise here and size my bet at a pot-sized raise, which is to 140.

With AJs, I'm once again going to make a standard raise to 3BB+1BB for each limper, to 40.
I flop top pair/top kicker, but once again, the board is coordinated. With 3 opps in the pot, I'll make a 3/4 pot bet here (133). I need to bet this much due to the board texture and number of opps in the hand and do not want to bet less, as I could give the opps the correct odds to outdraw me if I do so.
The turn brings an overcard and if I had made the larger bet on the flop, I would check the turn for pot control. However, with this not being the case and having 2 opps in the hand, I'm going to bet 2/3 pot here (277).
The river should be a blank (except for 34s) and if I had bet the turn, I'd check the river, as my hand does have showdown value. However, by not bettting the turn, I'll bet 2/3 pot (277).

With AJs, once again, I'll make a standard opening raise to 3BB+1BB for each limper. Due to this, I'll raise to 50. There is then a min-raise, a call, a 3-bet and 2 calls of it. While AJs is a hand with potential, it's an unmade hand that does not play very well in multi-way pots. Due to this, I'm mucking here and will look for a better spot to get my chips into. Either with better cards or when I can be in position.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
Old
Default
Thu Mar 07, 2013, 02:10 PM
(#7)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,819
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Hi Tallprince!

Now we want to get you playing on the real money tables. Next up, and spend some time on this one , study the Poker Basic Course and take the basic assessment quiz at the end of that course.

Once you have passed this quiz, please let us know and your first buy-in will be credited into your account within 24 hours of passing it and notifying us. Remember you can earn up to a total of $8 with this promotion.

Use this first buy-in to then play the 1/2 cent real money FULL RING tables only on PokerStars. Post back here when you get your first buy-in and start playing these games and we'll continue on from there.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
Old
Default
Passed the Quiz - Fri Mar 08, 2013, 08:51 AM
(#8)
Tallprince's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 21
Hi John,

Thank you very much for the analysis. This was very helpful. I will try to incorporate in all my future plays.

I want to know more about how to make notes. How to remember a player's style. Can you guide me on that?


Meanwhile I have passed the quiz with 88% correct answers. I there a way to know the correct answers of remaining 12% where I failed.

I wanted to point out a mistake in the The Rule of Two and Four topic.
It says.....
3. You hold Jh 10h on a flop of Qh 9h 2c . At the moment, you only have queen high, but there are plenty of outs. Any heart or six additional straight card outs will make your hand (don't count the or twice), meaning you have 15 outs in total. That represents a 30 per cent chance of getting there by the turn and 60 per cent by the river.

Which should be 60% on Turn & 30% on river.

Thanks
 
Old
Default
Fri Mar 08, 2013, 10:40 AM
(#9)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,819
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallprince View Post
I want to know more about how to make notes. How to remember a player's style. Can you guide me on that?
In the client, you can click on the notes tab, or right click on a player's avatar. You are then able to color code an opp or make notes about them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallprince View Post
Meanwhile I have passed the quiz with 88% correct answers. I there a way to know the correct answers of remaining 12% where I failed.
Unfortunately, that's not possible. It's set up that way so that people can't go back and write down the correct answers and give to someone else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallprince View Post
I wanted to point out a mistake in the The Rule of Two and Four topic.
It says.....
3. You hold Jh 10h on a flop of Qh 9h 2c . At the moment, you only have queen high, but there are plenty of outs. Any heart or six additional straight card outs will make your hand (don't count the or twice), meaning you have 15 outs in total. That represents a 30 per cent chance of getting there by the turn and 60 per cent by the river.

Which should be 60% on Turn & 30% on river.
This is NOT a mistake. To hit on the turn, you only get to see one card, so the outs are only worth 2%. To hit by the river, you get to see two cards, so each out is worth 4%. If I have 15 outs, I have a 30% chance of hitting the turn and another 30% of hitting the river, if I miss the turn. Therefore I have a 30% chance of hitting by the turn and 60% chance of hitting by the river.

Hope this helps.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
Old
Default
Fri Mar 08, 2013, 10:44 AM
(#10)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,819
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Hi Tallprince!

Congrats on passing the quiz. Your first buy-in will be credited into your account within 24 hours. Remember you can earn up to a total of $8 with this promotion.

Use this first buy-in to then only play the 1/2 cent real money FULL RING tables on PokerStars. Do not play any other type of game other than this. Don't worry if you lose this first buy-in as you will be able to earn another buy-in should this happen.

Use all that you have learned so far to try some real money games (1/2 cent tables). Post any hands that you have difficulty with here in this thread using the hand replayer and we will analyze them for you.

Also, please attend the 'Bet Sizing' live training session. This session can be found daily in the Live Training section.

Please let me know when you receive the buy-in and attend the training session.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
Old
Default
Real money - Fri Mar 08, 2013, 01:07 PM
(#11)
Tallprince's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 21



I made a mistake by not raising preflop with 3 BB + 1 BB for each limper. Still I want you to pls guide me thru this hand.
 
Old
Default
Fri Mar 08, 2013, 01:41 PM
(#12)
Tallprince's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 21
John,

Pls also analysis below hand


 
Old
Default
Fri Mar 08, 2013, 04:08 PM
(#13)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,353
Hi Tallprince,
I'm another of the hand analysers here. I'll take a look at these two hands and try and give you some advice.

75s (which we call a "suited one-gapper") is not a very strong hand. It doesn't make a good top pair, but can occasionally flop a decent flush/straight or a draw. It's best played in late position when there are a couple of weak players already in the pot, as they may give you a good price (or even free cards) to call with a draw.
Here, you're in the Cutoff (CO) one seat from the button and the pot is uopened. I'd sometimes try raising here if I knew the button and both blinds were very tight. I don't really want them to call, as I have 7 high. I'd be attempting to steal the blinds. Most of the time, however, I'm going to fold. Not only is it hard to make a profit with a hand like 75s, it's also a difficult one to play post-flop. I like keeping my decisions easy. Folding marginal hands pre-flop is easy.
If you do raise here, a standard raise of 3bb should work fairly often, whereas a minraise might be more likely to entice the blinds to call.

As it happens, the SB calls and the BB folds even though he has excellent pot odds. You flop bottom pair and a flush draw. You have to be slightly worried about bigger flush draws, but when villain bets this flop, he's more likely to have an ace or a king.
Villain's bet of 60% of pot is OK. You can call here and see if you hit your flush on the turn. At higher stakes, a semi-bluff raise might be good here, but at 2NL, a villain is rarely folding top pair on the flop, especially since you only made a minraise. All that raising does here is bloat the pot when you almost always have the worst hand.
We see a turn card that doesn't give you a flush. You now have just 4th pair and the draw, and I don't think villain is folding when you bet. I think it's best to just give up here and take a free card. You'll only hit the flush about 20% of the time, so you don't want to build a big pot when you're going to lose it 4 times out of 5.

In summary: With a marginal hand post-flop, try and keep the pot small until you actually hit your draw. To avoid the tricky situation in the first place, just fold pre-flop until you have more experience and good reads/notes on your opponents.

With AK in the SB, you're facing a raise by the button. Now he could be stealing, as his late position range should be fairly wide. Since AK is a very strong hand, I like to re-raise (3-bet) here, and I'm happy if villain folds or calls. Most of the time he'll have a worse hand, and our pre-flop re-raise gives us the initiative if we see a flop.
Making it 10c is only a minraise. Villain is not making a mistake if he calls the extra 4c. I'd prefer a 3-bet of 3X the original open, so something like 18c or 20c.
When villain re-raises (4-bets) to 30c, I start worrying that he's not stealing with a weak hand. He probably has a legitimate monster. Your decision here is crucial. Since you only have 71c left in your stack and there's already 42c in the middle, you have to shove or fold. Calling is not really viable, as you won't hit the flop very often, but you'll have less than a pot-sized bet, so may feel committed to getting it in with ace high. If you shove and get called, you'll at least see all 5 cards, and are flipping with QQ.
If this villain is tight, he's probably only 4-betting with QQ+. I'd probably just fold, having only put 10c into the pot. If he's looser and more aggressive (the type of player that would stack off with AQ/AJ or 99-88) then shoving is good.
You called and the flop is JT9. This is a pretty bad flop for AK. You have 2 overs and a gutshot, but most of the hands that a villain 4-bets hit this hard. AA-QQ are still overpairs, JJ and TT hit a set, and KQ flopped the nut straight, while AJ has TPTK. AQ is about the only hand you're beating, and even that has an OESD.
Because AK can be a tricky hand to play out of position, I'd much prefer a 5-bet shove, or a simple fold to the 4-bet. You got lucky that you actually had the best hand this time and it held on against a good draw, but there's no harm in folding AK when a villain gives you a indication (such as a 4-bet) that he is super strong.

I hope this analysis helps you. Good luck!


Bracelet Winner
 
Old
Default
Word of Advice req - Mon Mar 11, 2013, 12:44 AM
(#14)
Tallprince's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 21
Hi John, ArtySmokesPS

I have started with Cash games topics.
Meanwhile want you to pls help me with below 3 hands.








Here Since I was holding small pair I did not bet post flop. And His bet after river made me sure that he is bluffing and I called him with my pair of 6s. Was that appropriate?




Since I was having AJ suited and getting good pot odds I did call the all-in.

Also I want to ask if while playing some players leave in between or loose with All-in or sitting out for some time then what should be my action as you told me to play on full tables? Pls guide as I dont want to disqualify from this promotion because of such reasons.

Thanks

Last edited by Tallprince; Mon Mar 11, 2013 at 12:49 AM.. Reason: want to add something
 
Old
Default
FPP - what to be done with them - Mon Mar 11, 2013, 04:43 AM
(#15)
Tallprince's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 21
Hi,

Just want to know that as I play on cash tables, my account is showing some FPP balance. I have checked about it and there are some tournaments where the buy-in is not cash but the FPP.
Can I play in such tournaments without getting disqualified in this BB promotion??
 
Old
Default
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 10:15 AM
(#16)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,819
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Hi Tallprince!

We will have the hands for you within 24 hours. Please do NOT play any tournaments (except freerolls). Playing them will disqualify you.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
Old
Default
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 12:42 PM
(#17)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,353
Hi again TallPrince,

I'll have a look at these 3 new hands.

With AK in the BB, I'd sometimes just call the raise by the SB, as you have position on him, but since there is another player in the pot, I want to try and get heads up, as AK is more vulnerable with multiple opponents. A standard raise will be 3x the original raise plus a couple more bb for the limper, making it about 35c. Since this would be more than a third of your stack, making things awkward on the flop (which you'll fail to hit about 70% of the time), shoving is OK. If the SB was a very tight player, then I'd probably not get it in pre, as he will have QQ+ pretty often. Since villain 5 shows up with 96s, shoving for fat value is good here. If he stacks off that light, then getting it in with AK is perfect, as you'll make a ton of money against his range in the long run.

66 is good enough to open-raise in the CO, as you'll often steal the blinds, or be able to take down the pot on the flop with a c-bet. The bb calls and then donkbets the flop. It's a monotone board and you have a very weak flush draw and an underpair. There's basically no hand you beat here, and even draws have good equity. Villain's bet should allow you to make an easy fold, so you don't even lose money by betting the flop and getting called/check-raised. With a hand like 66, you should usually be folding on the flop if you don't flop a set.
As it turns out, villain was bluffing with a very weak hand. If you had notes on villain that said he played like this, then calling the flop and river is OK, but I'd much rather fold to the flop bet. 66 is almost never going to win the pot at showdown unless you make a set of trips.

With AJs, I much prefer just flat-calling the first raise. In a full ring game, AJs isn't really strong enough to 3-bet in most situations, because there aren't many worse hands that call. After you 3-bet, the button shoved in all his chips cold. (He'd not put in a cent till then). The cold shove is a tell of an extremely strong hand. Villain will have QQ+ and AK almost always here. AJ is in very bad shape against that range, so you should be rushing to the FOLD button.
Things become a little stranger when the first raiser calls the shove. His hand is probably something like ATs+ and 88+, hoping for a flip, but he should really be folding anything worse than AK or QQ, as you are still to act and should have a monster yourself, since you 3-bet.
While the pot odds look tempting, AJs just isn't going to win at showdown very often against 2 players with hands that are in the "monster" range. When you call, you're nearly always "getting it in bad" and having to suck out.
If we put the exact hands into an equity calculator we get this:

       Equity     Win     Tie
MP3    16.22%   7.99%   8.24% { AhJh }
CO     16.22%   7.98%   8.24% { AsJs }
BU     67.56%  66.11%   1.45% { AcKc }

Your hand had about 16.2% equity (meaning it would only win 16% of the time), but you were contributing about a third of the pot. This is a losing proposition. If we change one of the villain's hands to QQ+, your equity slips to less than 14%. It's obviously never good to get all your chips in with such a small chance of winning.
Next time you look at the pot odds, remember to think of the hands you're likely to be up against. It's no good if the pot gives odds of 2:1 if you're going to lose the pot more than 2 times out of 3.

Hope this helps. Cheers, Arty


Bracelet Winner
 
Old
Default
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 12:47 PM
(#18)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallprince View Post
Also I want to ask if while playing some players leave in between or loose with All-in or sitting out for some time then what should be my action as you told me to play on full tables?
If the number of players falls below 7, you should usually quit and find another full ring table. Short-handed play requires a different strategy, and the tight style we recommend here will cost you too many blinds on SH tables.


Bracelet Winner
 
Old
Default
Thanks - Tue Mar 12, 2013, 12:18 AM
(#19)
Tallprince's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 21
John, Arty,

(Glad to know that I can play Free rolls.)

Thanks for the insight.

I want to know how you have calculated the winning % of each hand, and How I can learn about it. Is there any training I can attend or course which may help me?

Pls tell me as I am good at maths but dont know currently to calculate such % for improving my game. as pot odds and outs are calculated post flop (as I know), so how to know about a pre-flop situation?

Also I am not good at note making. Can you pls guide me how to do that? (pls give some tips and a demo of notes seeing which I may understand it)

Thanks a ton.
 
Old
Default
Tue Mar 12, 2013, 08:24 AM
(#20)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,353
Hi TP,

I calculated your chances of winning the hand (your "equity" in the pot) with a tool called Equilab. Other players use the similar Pokerstove. They are both free to download and you can find them via google.

With an equity evaluator you can calculate winning chances pre-flop or post-flop, by entering the exact hands (or more usefully) ranges of hands. You can't use the tool at the table, but I've learned a lot from post-game study, so I just sort of "know" whether I'm ahead/behind pre-flop. Post-flop action enables me to narrow villain's range and further estimate my winning chances.

For example, let's say that a reg has opened the pot in MP and you have AK on the button. You think the villain raises about 10% of hands in that seat. His range is something like 44+,ATs+,KJs+,AJo+. How does AK fare against that range? AK has about 53% equity.

       Equity     Win     Tie
Hero   52.97%  48.06%   4.91% { AKs, AKo }
Villain   47.03%  42.12%   4.91% { 44+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+ }

Since you usually have the best hand, you could re-raise or call. If your hand had much less than 50% equity against a range, then you'd usually fold (unless you were going set-mining).

With practice and experience, you'll get an idea of how well your hand fares against a range.

I think there might be a training session or two that focused on notes, but the main things I note down are the hands that a villain limps with (often it's small pairs and suited connectors) and whether he limp-calls or limp-folds, how he plays flopped sets (raises or slowplays) and whether he plays fit or fold (if he folds to c-bets often, I'm more likely to c-bet. If he "floats" often, I'll be less inclined to bluff).

Example note:

Open limps: 88-22, SCs, limp-calls often.
X-r monsters, passive w draws
Floats overs, station.

That info can help you narrow a range (based on whether the villain limped or raised) and then proceed accordingly on the flop; betting big when you connect and the board is drawy, or contains high cards, getting out of the way when the villain raises, but not bluffing too often vs this calling station.


Bracelet Winner
 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com