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25NL 6-max Zoom: A7o flop BPTK nut back door, turn set back door still open - lol

25NL 6-max Zoom: A7o flop BPTK nut back door, turn set back door still open - lol - Mon Mar 04, 2013, 10:08 PM
ForrestFive's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 2,036
Not sure, but is this a case of value owning myself?

No reads on the bb. Just did a min sb steal with Ac7d got called. Flop 7sKcJc - it's a start bottom pair and nut draw.

But my all bets get clicked back. Turn is 7c now I have a set and my nut draw is still alive.

I bet my set on a blank river and the same happens again. I'm thinking the raise is 2 pair KJ as no real value raise was shown with the villain's line. Maybe a nit AK/AJ/JJ/KK doesn't 3-bet pre so I call and see.

So did the villain catch a fish and get the >>best value from me<<?

PS. more hands AK AJ 3-bet from bb?

Last edited by ForrestFive; Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 10:30 PM.. Reason: JJ or KK should maybe 3b pre
Tue Mar 05, 2013, 07:14 AM
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Hi ForrestFive!

Interesting hand! In my experience at 25NL Zoom FR, it is quite common to see draws played aggressively. So, after seeing your flop c-bet get min-raised, I thought a drawing hand most likely. If he had flopped a stronger made hand such as two pair, I would have expected him to bet more to protect his hand.

The 7 on the turn gives you trips (not a set), but also makes a club flush possible. This is where things get interesting. I would assume, and hope, that the villain just made a flush. If so, you have 7 outs to the nut flush and 10 more outs for a boat or quads. If you hit your card on the river, the villain will most likely pay you in full thinking his flush is good. The implied odds look great.

I am pretty careful though and it really looks like we are behind atm, so I would have check-called the turn hoping to keep the pot under control. Then lead with a solid bet on the river if we hit one of our outs expecting to get reraised.

As played, when we miss the river, I think I would check-fold, or check-call depending on my read on the villain. But I would not expect our trips to be good that often at showdown in this spot.


Roland GTX
Tue Mar 05, 2013, 11:59 AM
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,479
(Head Trainer)

Preflop and flop line are fine. Blind v blind we may get raised lighter, but can't narrow this to just draws imo. Draws, Kx, Jx, and the occassional airball spaz all might do this. Calling the raise OOP is tricky, but I would be prepared to continue on any blank turn (we can't call simply hoping to improve and check/fold 100% of the time we don't, or villains will pwn us). So on blanks, sometimes check/call, and sometimes lead out again.

We improve nicely on the turn, but I don't like leading out now, an aggressive action looks too strong imo. I prefer checking to him. I would expect him to bet his entire range here (including the flush draws that just got there, and air as this is a good scary card to barrel into us from his perspective). I actually think check/calling is optimal here given that we A) are sometimes not ahead, and B) villain has a fair bit of bluffs and weak made hands like Jx in his range). As played, this has got to be a bad sign that we got raised again. We have enough equity against his range to call though, thanks for min-raising V3. And we can still have the best hand sometimes, like against KJ or KxQc/JxQc or a few out of line 7's that think they just got lucky.

On the river just check and call, this guy has shown a lot of strength, I don't see a good reason to allow him a chance for the hat trick (raising us on all 3 post flop streets) when he's got us beat. Byu checking and calling you give him one more chance to bluff if he has been out of line. Now as played I can't see how he's bluffing, but our hand is too strong to fold imo blind v blind... with the size of the pot our break even point on calling the raise is about 15% and as I think he might overplay 7x or KJ in this spot, and it's bvb, I think we're close enough to 15% to vomit and call.

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