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2NL QQ raise on flop?

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2NL QQ raise on flop? - Mon Mar 04, 2013, 10:50 PM
(#1)
itsandrew1's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 19


I had been at the table for maybe 2 orbits. V2 had been quite tight and V3 had seen a few flops. I had a note on V3 from previous tables that he may be a bit weak to bets and he had folded the hands he had played.

So I put V2 & V3 on a similar range broadway cards, probably with an A, with V3 potentially having weaker holdings like KJ, QJ, JT to see the flop. V2 may have any pocket pair, V3 may have mid range and up.

Is this a fair read on their range?

I didn't raise pre flop, was that fine to do?

Post flop I had the overpair. I wasn't sure what to make of V2's donk bet but was surprised to see V3 call. I thought V2 may have a steal in him with two overcards but may also have AT or a pocket pair and that V3 might have caught something with AX or have an overpair too.

My option was to call or raise.

I chose to raise. I wanted to build the pot. I wanted them to pay some more to draw on their overcards, if that's what they had. I also wanted the betting lead so that I could make the decision about betting or checking to the river.

I feel like I missed out on some value though by raising. How would you play this differently?

Andrew
 
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Tue Mar 05, 2013, 12:29 AM
(#2)
mimesis.is's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 74
A min raise to 20c might have been low enough to keep those overcards/straight draws in. one of the villains may well have been taking a shot at the pot with something like middle pair hoping you had AK.
I think if you're showing that much strength on the flop by reraising pot you're pretty much only going to be getting calls from trips and other overpairs, mainly ones that beat you. Given how dry the board is I'd probably call along and let them bluff their money off with their much wider ranges unless an overcard comes down. A small raise isn't too bad here though imho.
 
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Tue Mar 05, 2013, 01:31 AM
(#3)
itsandrew1's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimesis.is View Post
A min raise to 20c might have been low enough to keep those overcards/straight draws in. one of the villains may well have been taking a shot at the pot with something like middle pair hoping you had AK.
I think if you're showing that much strength on the flop by reraising pot you're pretty much only going to be getting calls from trips and other overpairs, mainly ones that beat you. Given how dry the board is I'd probably call along and let them bluff their money off with their much wider ranges unless an overcard comes down. A small raise isn't too bad here though imho.
Thanks for your reply. Really appreciate your thoughts.

I suppose one thing that got me nervous a bit is that I've had my last 3 QQ's cracked and I felt like I didn't want to slow play.

When it was my turn to act there was already .46 in the pot, making my .30 2/3 pot? I thought that was ok but I get your point though about who is gonna call me. I was thinking maybe V2 would take it up, .20 call into .76 already in pot? And that V3 would likely fold unless they had the goods. IDK, I suppose my raise would look strong though and would only leave better hands with the exceptions of AT or JJ making a call.

Thanks again.

Andrew
 
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Tue Mar 05, 2013, 04:25 AM
(#4)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Hi itsandrew1

Preflop I like your raise and its size, 3x plus 1x for the limper is pretty standard. I think your range for V2 is ok. However, I think we need to give an even wider range to the loosish V3 calling behind.

The flop seems decent for you. No overcards and no big draws. The donk bet from V2 is small and looks more like a weak steal, or perhaps a blocking bet. It doesn’t look like he is betting for value. Had he flopped a set, he probably would have gone for a check-raise. I am a bit more concerned with V3. He called preflop and now calls another bet. Is he a calling station, or does he have a hand? Your notes seem to indicate that he may be a fit or fold guy post flop.

Either way, your overpair QQ rates to be ahead now, but you do not have a lock on the hand. You are facing two opponents and any K or A on the turn or river is going to make this a tough spot for you. This is not a spot to be slowplaying.

I would bet for value just as you did. Although I would have made it 3x the original bet plus 1x for the caller making it 40 cents rather than 30 cents. Both have shown an an interest in the hand both preflop and on the flop. There is a good chance one will continue. If either has a 10, a pocket pair such as 7s, 8s, 9s or Js, and even some overcards, they will call your 40 cent raise often enough to make this a good line for value. I also think that if they were willing to calling a 30 cent raise, then they would call a 40 cent raise as well.

Min-raising to 20 cents is dangerous. I would not recommend doing this. Yes, it might keep them in the hand, but having just a pair isn’t strong enough to willingly entice multiple villains to coninue. Too many bad things can happen on the turn and river. I suggest keeping it simple here and let the villains make the mistakes.

Nice hand

Roland GTX
 
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Tue Mar 05, 2013, 05:29 AM
(#5)
itsandrew1's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 19
Cheers Roland GTX, thanks for the analysis.

Understood about V3. Sounds right on how you describe him.

Understood about the bet sizing on the flop and the general post flop play.



Andrew
 
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Tue Mar 05, 2013, 11:39 AM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
I agree with Greg.

The donk bettor is almost always going to have a worse 1 pair hand on this board texture or just be stabbing sometimes with air (probably not 3 handed though). HU I would probably flat him in position to induce more action on future streets when I suspect he'll just fold (correctly) to a raise. But the presence of the caller makes raising better imo. He may call with his 1 pair hands, and if we can thin out at least one of them that's not a bad thing as there are so few friendly turn cards. Not just an ace or king which are an over and we have no idea how dangerous they are or not, but a T gives top pair trips, a J or 9 coordinate with the T well, 8 starts coordinating between the T and 6, etc. The only true good card for us is a Q. A 4 is a pretty good card too. A 6 isn't bad, and a 2 is pretty safe. Everything else has some level of unattractiveness to it in a 3 way pot.


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Tue Mar 05, 2013, 08:57 PM
(#7)
itsandrew1's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 19
Thanks Dave.
 

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