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2NL QJs made my flush on the river. Hand is 3 ways and I'm not in position.

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2NL QJs made my flush on the river. Hand is 3 ways and I'm not in position. - Fri Mar 08, 2013, 07:24 PM
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itsandrew1's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 19


V5 hadn't been playing a lot of hands and was typically passive preflop but had been quite aggressive post flop and didn't get to showdown much.
V7 Had not been entering a lot of pots but would come to showdown with a wideish range
V8 Had been opening pots between and 5x But had been deceptive in his preflop raises so it didn't always mean he had weaker holdings with lower opening. Post flop he wouldn't cbet without something from what I could tell.

On the flop V8 had a weak bet. I put him on connecting with the flop or less likely an overpair. So I was thinking. AJ, KJ, AdTd, J9s, 99, 66, probably not JJ as I had one, maybe TT or QQ or Adxd. I didn't discount AA, KK, AK but thought it less likely. Anyway, I thought he was slow playing his hand so I just called. When V5 called I thought he may have a similar range to V8.

Turn pretty much the same.

River I made my hand. V8 again made a small bet. I wasn't sure what this meant this time so I wasnt sure what to do. I thought I was beating a lot of his hands but I still had V5 to act behind me.

Was I right just to call here or should I have raised for value? I think if I were heads up I would have raised to .50/.60.

What if I raise and get shoved on by V5 or V8? Am I strong enough to make the call?

Andrew
 
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Sat Mar 09, 2013, 01:41 PM
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TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,487
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Hi andrew,

Not terribly fond of calling UTG raises with QJ, but the note that he c-bets honestly is a nice read that can be exploited in position so I'm ok with it.

His bet sizing is pretty weak on the flop... I don't mind flatting with this big a hand but we are still vulnerable to an A, K, or straight cards and it's a 4 way pot so I would often raise directly on the flop here on a wet board. Especially since we can get big flop action from other draws, even if someone has a hand like AdTd we are in good shape having 2 of their flush outs and a pair. Plus by flatting we are not growing the pot really since the bet is so small, and our hand warrants growing it some imo. I don't think someone who bets weak is slow playing their hand, usually what it means is they have a weak holding. Are you sure you didn't make this read after seeing what he had? In this case he is actually playing his set horribly bad, it's a wet board in a multi-way pot, ripe for action, he should be trying to grow the pot not make tiny bets. Definite note to make on this villain, fancy play syndrome.

On the river I would go ahead and make a big raise. If V8 had the nut flush draw and just got there, I'd expect him to bet big, not small, yet again he comes with the 1/3rd pot bet. Based on your c-bet read he rates to have a hand since he c-bet and barreled all 3 streets, but I think the sizing indicated we are good. If V5 has one of the 2 hands that beats us, nh, not much we can do about that imo.

If your raise gets shoved on, yes I would call. Not worried about V8 at all here, V5's shove would be more concerning, but he can absolutely make the play with worse hands (lower flushes at least, and maybe some other holdings that don't really make sense but it's 2nl after all).


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Sat Mar 09, 2013, 02:56 PM
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itsandrew1's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 19
Hey Dave, great feedback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
His bet sizing is pretty weak on the flop... I don't mind flatting with this big a hand but we are still vulnerable to an A, K, or straight cards and it's a 4 way pot so I would often raise directly on the flop here on a wet board. Especially since we can get big flop action from other draws, even if someone has a hand like AdTd we are in good shape having 2 of their flush outs and a pair. Plus by flatting we are not growing the pot really since the bet is so small, and our hand warrants growing it some imo.
I considered a raise but wasn't sure. How should I be thinking about this with two streets left. What if I miss the turn (like I did) and the bets are larger to make a draw (and maybe I don't have top pair anymore)? Can I just check the turn and look weak or do I need to barrel again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
I don't think someone who bets weak is slow playing their hand, usually what it means is they have a weak holding. Are you sure you didn't make this read after seeing what he had?
The way he'd been playing I definetly smelt a rat but as to my ranging well it could be retrospective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
If your raise gets shoved on, yes I would call. Not worried about V8 at all here, V5's shove would be more concerning, but he can absolutely make the play with worse hands (lower flushes at least, and maybe some other holdings that don't really make sense but it's 2nl after all).
Since making the original post I found this http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/art...ment-Decisions This part makes a lot more sense to me now. Recommended viewing!

Andrew
 
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Sun Mar 10, 2013, 01:13 PM
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TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,487
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsandrew1 View Post
I considered a raise but wasn't sure. How should I be thinking about this with two streets left. What if I miss the turn (like I did) and the bets are larger to make a draw (and maybe I don't have top pair anymore)? Can I just check the turn and look weak or do I need to barrel again?
That's the beauty of playing pots in position... we will often get checked to on the turn, and can decide if we want to check and take a free card, or bet again. Checking isn't bad btw, especially with showdown value like we have, it may induce a bluff on the river by the villain, or a thin value bet by weaker, or a check/call to bluff catch US on blank rivers with weaker hands.


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