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Bluffed?

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Bluffed? - Mon Mar 11, 2013, 12:39 PM
(#1)
RobinQQQ's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 115
Mmm Still can't decide if I got bluffed here.

http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/rep...ash=326EFC4344

Villain is playing 22/19 but only opening 13 from MP. He has cbet 100% of only 2 times and has a 78% total turn bet. I know I played this hand passivly after the 3bet but I really didn't want to end up stacking off with only one pair (a weakness of mine).
 
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Mon Mar 11, 2013, 01:40 PM
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RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
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I don't think you got bluffed. Your going to run into AJ or a set here very often. My guess would be he spiked a set and bet out hoping you had a hand like you did and that you wouldn't want to fold.

You could have considered a decent raise on the flop. If he calls you can check back turn and see a free river usually. If he re-raises, you could consider folding as there are no draws he could be going nuts with so you will usually be beat.

I think you were correct to consider if villain was bluffing. Villain polarized his range to either very strong or very weak. I just don't think your going to run into a bluff very often in this situation. If villain had been a maniac I'd probably call him down, but against a 22/19 I'm much more inclined to fold.
 
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Mon Mar 11, 2013, 01:53 PM
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Croyd93's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 639
Yo bro,

Firstly I'm interested as to why you 3bet and why you choose the sizing you did? In general when I'm making a 3bet IP I'll only make it smaller than my standard 3x if I'm betting as a bluff and I don't think it will affect the openers calling range.

A 13% range looks something like this 22+,ATs+,KTs+,QJs,AJo+,KJo+ your hand plays well against this range and you have postion. When you 3bet he'll fold a lot of hands you dominate so I prefer a call against this type of player. If you where OOP I'd prefer a 3bet, but having absolute positon here means alot imo.

Once you 3bet and flop TP I think raising his donkbet is a must. He'll be donking with a lot of worse hands, TP, second pair, straight draws. Basically a lot of hands that you can value from by raising. I'd make it 40c-50c as I feel this will get called by all but the worst hands in his range (air).

When you call you leave yourself in a bad situation, it looks weak and there is passive dead money in the pot that is worth attacking. The villain bets pot which speak volumes imo, I think this is a value bet however defining his value range is difficult as you just called the flop. Had you raised and the villain donked again this big then I would be inclined to fold but he may smell weakness from your flop call and be attacking it with some kind of turned draw. So as played I would call the turn.

OTR I think this is a fold, you've called twice and I don't think the villain expects you to fold. He'll have AJ/A9 for 2 pair, 44/JJ/99 for sets a lot of the time imo, it's less likely he can have a backdoor flushe as you hold the Qs and the As is on the board so this removes a lot of combos, however KsJs KsTs JsTs etc are all possibilities. When faced with a decision like this I like to look back at the flop SPR, it was 10 in this hand which doesn't lend itself to stacking of with TPGK. This is because it takes a considerable amount of betting/raising, or as is the case here big bets to get the money in. Think what the villain will be willing to put this much moeny in the pot with when he has to bet so big. It's natural to feel like you've been bluffed but players don't bluff nearly as much as you think so I say good fold OTR.

Oliver


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Last edited by Croyd93; Mon Mar 11, 2013 at 01:58 PM..
 
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Mon Mar 11, 2013, 01:56 PM
(#4)
Croyd93's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockerguyAA View Post
You could have considered a decent raise on the flop. If he calls you can check back turn and see a free river usually. If he re-raises, you could consider folding as there are no draws he could be going nuts with so you will usually be beat.
This line would be my preference after the 3bet preflop, as rockerguy says you get to see a river a lot of the time without any betting on the turn and if he 3bets you OTF it's an easy fold.



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Mon Mar 11, 2013, 03:09 PM
(#5)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,359
I go along with Croyd's analysis.
I'd generally just call pre here and station it up post-flop with top pair if I hit it, as this guy is barrelling worse quite often.
Villain's bet-sizing is all over the place (half-pot, pot, overbet), so it does look quite bluffy, but that line also fits with sets and two pairs, as there are no straights possible on this board and he's giving you credit for an ace.
I'm not sure if we can raise the donkbet. It might make the hand easier to play, but I don't see us being ahead very often if he calls or 3-bets.
Against a tighter player we could fold the turn, as I don't see nits barrelling with AT here, and that's about the only hand you beat. With this villain, we just have to hope he has a hand like KQ/QTs, but I'm still folding to a decent bet on the river unless you've seen him fire 3 barrels with a missed draw before.


Bracelet Winner
 
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Tue Mar 12, 2013, 10:19 AM
(#6)
RobinQQQ's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 115
Thanks for the analysis guys, really helpful. I’ll try to deal with some of your points.
Croyd It’s actually a good question as to why I three bet PF. I feel that I want to take control of the hand Pre flop and also given the nature of A Q I’m not unhappy to take the hand down straight away. I have been experimenting with smaller 3bet sizing recently and this hand is a good example of why. I feel one of the (many) weaknesses of my game is my tendency to stack off way too much with decent one pair hands and I’m trying to find ways of getting to show down without feeling pot committed. I think that this also led to my rather passive approach post flop.
I think you are all right that I should have raised his flop Donk bet but I guess I got a bit gun shy. His bet confused me as I had a fairly small sample on this guy so I didn’t know if this was strength or weakness. Also it means that I can’t now both take control of the hand and yet limit the size of the pot. I think the alarm bells were ringing as this is exactly the kind of situation where I often get into trouble.
As the hand panned out and with a bit of time for reflection I’m happier with my fold. As you all point out what do I beat? But I’m less happy with the line I took from the start. Maybe I was over aggressive Pre flop and overly passive on the flop.
You’ve given me a lot to think about so thanks guys.

Rob.
 

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