Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Texas Hold'Em Cash Games /

10NL 6max Zoom, multiway 3b pot with overpair against 2 donk bets

Old
Default
10NL 6max Zoom, multiway 3b pot with overpair against 2 donk bets - Sat Mar 16, 2013, 11:01 AM
(#1)
TommyGun369's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 340
Hi everyone,

Villain_4: 12/8/2.0 (88 hands) fold to 3bet 1/3
Villain_3: 28/17/6.0 (31 hands)



The fact that villain3 cold calls a 3bet and then leads out into 2 people is really weird and I have not seen many of these plays so far so I do not know what to make of it. I would assume that in this spot a donk bet OTF means either a strong draw or a set trying to protect itself from being outdrawn. Villain 4 calls and I decided to call and see what develops OTT because at this point I really do not feel like sticking the money in, especially if I get shoved on by villain4. I also thought that the fact that he got called by 2 people in 3b pot should slow him down and really expected the turn to go check check (oh silly me) since cold calling there shows a fair amount of strength.
However, the villain continues with another bet and it is on me. At this point I do not see how my hand can be good. I highly doubt that AQ bets again and unfortunately my Kd blocks a lot of good flush draws which leaves 99, QQ for him. The problem is that I really do not know if that guy is a regular or a recreational player and have no idea if he is capable of cold calling preflop with QT or maybe even a weak suited ace.

Easy fold?
Would another line be preferable for me? Especially OTF?

Cheers,

Tommy
 
Old
Default
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 12:50 AM
(#2)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
BronzeStar
If it was not a 3-bet pot I would probably just shut down completely and let go of my 3-4 big blinds when this happens.

Because it is a 3-bet pot and your have a strong image on your side, I'd probably just raise the flop a medium amount and hope for the best. Villain that donked out first bet less than half pot... doesn't scream strength. I would expect to run into a decent amount of worse hands if your raise and he slows down.

Also, I'd expect the the villain4 that calls the donk bet to have a draw almost always considering the situation and his stats.

Last edited by RockerguyAA; Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 12:59 AM..
 
Old
Default
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 06:50 AM
(#3)
TommyGun369's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 340
The problem I am having with raising the flop though is that any reasonable raise would pretty much commit me to the pot if I get called. So if I raise the flop it could go several ways:
1) Both villains fold which is basically the only favorable scenario for us. However, I think that if the villain3 was prepared to fold I am almost sure he would not continue betting on the turn which makes my call a lot cheaper and gives me the same information
2) Both villains call = I am probably dead and have invested 3x more money in the pot that I should have
3) Villain3 shoves, villain4 calls - now I am playing a guessing game and have no idea if the call can be profitable (which given the action probably isn't since we can't really expect villain3 to shove AQ or worse there unless he is a complete maniac - information we don't have)
4) Villain3 calls, villain4 folds, turn goes check check and he value bets/shoves the river and I probably have to fold.

That is why I really did not want to raise OTF but maybe there is something wrong with my thought process here?
 
Old
Default
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 06:57 AM
(#4)
TommyGun369's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 340
And given the SPR I do not think that villain3's bet sizing is that bad to be honest. Very easy to get the money in by the river.

However, it is still 10NL which is full of goofy plays so I did not want to give up to one 40% pot bet but once he bets again OTT I really do not think he is just messing around.
 
Old
Default
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 10:14 AM
(#5)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
BronzeStar
Looking at this again, I agree with you that raising flop could get you in some really awkward river spots. Maybe we aren't deep enough here to do that. Maybe a min raise? It would get more value from draws, potentially slow down the betting on the turn, and if you are against a set they will be letting you know almost always in response. Min raise shouldn't get any folds though which stinks.

I think you need a really specific plan to call on flop. You are going to be running into big draws and sets almost always in this spot in my opinion(ok villain 3 could have QQ). If you call I think a good plan would be to shove if turn is a blank and the action goes check-check. Shove to any action when you spike your K on turn. If turn is a diamond and either villain bets I'd probably try sticking around if given reasonable odds to chase the flush. If none of this happens and villain 3 bets out again, but even bigger, I'm not sure what else to do but fold.

Last edited by RockerguyAA; Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 10:18 AM..
 
Old
Default
Mon Mar 18, 2013, 03:43 AM
(#6)
PSO-xflixx's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,119
(Live Trainer)
Hey Tommy,

Preflop BB will usually have a much stronger range than UTG since he just flatted closing the action with great odds. Therefore I wouldn't be worried about UTG too much and just focus on maximizing value against BB who could call a shove here with TT/QQ/Combodraws or maybe even AJs. The alternate line you took relys heavily on a good turn peeling off (which will probably not happen too often since most cards might freeze action or kill your hand).

I think that now we have seen a safe turn it's good to jam for value and still expect to get called by worse enough of the time.


Live Trainer




Last edited by PSO-xflixx; Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 03:46 AM..
 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com