Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Texas Hold'Em Cash Games /

puke call syndrome

Old
Default
puke call syndrome - Sat Mar 16, 2013, 04:53 PM
(#1)
wikked76's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 385
PokerStars - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

wikked76 (BTN): $5.27
cassienqa88 (SB): $3.28 (VPIP: 20.97, PFR: 17.74, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 62)
Dr.Rhymes (BB): $10.46 (VPIP: 16.50, PFR: 8.38, 3Bet Preflop: 0.69, Hands: 408)
Jaeden_AA (UTG): $21.76 (VPIP: 45.00, PFR: 30.00, 3Bet Preflop: 20.00, Hands: 41)
Geolog800 (MP): $6.04 (VPIP: 29.73, PFR: 24.32, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 39)
7alexc7 (CO): $6.02 (VPIP: 19.39, PFR: 14.02, 3Bet Preflop: 3.21, Hands: 444)

cassienqa88 posts SB $0.02, Dr.Rhymes posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) wikked76 has 6:spade: 7:spade:

Jaeden_AA raises to $0.15, fold, 7alexc7 calls $0.15, wikked76 calls $0.15, fold, fold

Flop: ($0.52, 3 players) T:diamond: 8:diamond: 2:heart:
Jaeden_AA bets $0.30, fold, wikked76 calls $0.30

Turn: ($1.12, 2 players) 9:spade:
Jaeden_AA bets $0.70, wikked76 calls $0.70

River: ($2.52, 2 players) 8:heart:
Jaeden_AA checks, wikked76 bets $1.75, Jaeden_AA raises to $8.80, wikked76 calls $2.37 and is all-in

Jaeden_AA shows T:heart: T:spade: (Full House, Tens full of Eights) (Pre 80%, Flop 85%, Turn 23%)
wikked76 shows 6:spade: 7:spade: (Straight, Ten High) (Pre 20%, Flop 15%, Turn 77%)
Jaeden_AA wins $10.31



this is one the many times i know i shudda have done something but didn't and m gonna regret it lata.

should i have raised the turn to abt $2.00 and fold when the board paired up?

really tanked for awhile trying to range the XR shove on river, 88? TT? and had to learn it the hard way, as usual
 
Old
Default
Sat Mar 16, 2013, 08:30 PM
(#2)
TheAwesomeNW's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 474
Yo! Actually I would have folded the flop. Did you plan to raise him if the Turn was a diamond or float him? Without any plan or reads on him like low Turn CB%, we're getting the wrong odds to hit the gutshot.

Yea, I would have raised the Turn to $2.30 as there's still a FD. And he might not bet River if he miss so might as well charge him here. As played OTR it does look like a boat. We're getting 3.5:1 to make the call. Good odds but if we only range him with QJ, TT, 99, 88, 22, don't know if it's a call man. Don't think he'll take this River line with QQ+. Tough... Hope to hear the pros analyse if we're "pot committed" after our last bet
 
Old
Default
Sat Mar 16, 2013, 09:24 PM
(#3)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by wikked76 View Post
really tanked for awhile trying to range the XR shove on river, 88? TT?


On the bright side, your ranging's excellent wikked!! Mine's very much a work in progress
 
Old
Default
Sat Mar 16, 2013, 11:20 PM
(#4)
wikked76's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAwesomeNW View Post
Yo! Actually I would have folded the flop. Did you plan to raise him if the Turn was a diamond or float him? Without any plan or reads on him like low Turn CB%, we're getting the wrong odds to hit the gutshot.

Yea, I would have raised the Turn to $2.30 as there's still a FD. And he might not bet River if he miss so might as well charge him here. As played OTR it does look like a boat. We're getting 3.5:1 to make the call. Good odds but if we only range him with QJ, TT, 99, 88, 22, don't know if it's a call man. Don't think he'll take this River line with QQ+. Tough... Hope to hear the pros analyse if we're "pot committed" after our last bet

hey TANW,
well, the plan was to hit the gutshot on the turn as played BUT, was in 2 minds whether to flat or raise the turn bet. On 1 hand was worried about another diamond or the board pairing (chasing draws and hitting on the river, losing more $$$), and on the other if I raised the turn would villain call with worse (not extracting value)?

am also thinking about the betsize if i were to raise the turn bet, $2.00-$2.50ish?? or just do it "ol skool" and XR jam river

on hindsight, the XR jam on the river looked really polarized to me, i hope i'm using the term correctly?
either he/she had the nuts or total fluff (e.g. TPTK, missed flush draw, 1 pair hands, maybe even AK, AQs)
 
Old
Default
Sat Mar 16, 2013, 11:25 PM
(#5)
wikked76's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrustySam View Post


On the bright side, your ranging's excellent wikked!! Mine's very much a work in progress

hey sam,
mine's a work in progress as well, that's why we're here sharing, discussing hands and ideas

btw, it's easier to range villain's hands after u've seen the results too
 
Old
Default
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 12:01 AM
(#6)
TheAwesomeNW's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 474
OTT yea we might fold out worse by raising. But I don't want to give a free card + he might not give you another street of value. So that's the best street to extract

Yea polarized is the word. Hmm I don't think he'll do it with total bluff unless you had prior reads that he's a maniac. It's either with QQ-AA (though it's uncommon to see Villains UTG cbet twice, river c/r jam on this board texture- they usually just bet river), QJ or boats. So it's up to your judgement whether to include QQ+. What're his stats?
 
Old
Default
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 02:40 AM
(#7)
wikked76's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAwesomeNW View Post
OTT yea we might fold out worse by raising. But I don't want to give a free card + he might not give you another street of value. So that's the best street to extract

Yea polarized is the word. Hmm I don't think he'll do it with total bluff unless you had prior reads that he's a maniac. It's either with QQ-AA (though it's uncommon to see Villains UTG cbet twice, river c/r jam on this board texture- they usually just bet river), QJ or boats. So it's up to your judgement whether to include QQ+. What're his stats?

Jaeden_AA (UTG): $21.76 (VPIP: 45.00, PFR: 30.00, 3Bet Preflop: 20.00, AF: 4, AFq: 47, Hands: 41)

Read more: puke call syndrome - PokerSchoolOnline Forum http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...#ixzz2NmSUjRaf

these are the basic stats, let me know if u need more

Last edited by wikked76; Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 02:46 AM..
 
Old
Default
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 03:55 AM
(#8)
3Karen3's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 119
I am not understanding why you would waste your chips in the first place preflop. Then as the board progressed what where you actually thinking? I can get a gut shot straight with all those cards on board. Yes you can hit your straight but if your opponent was just going for the flush you lost one of your outs.
To me it is one of those < why are you wasting chips to begin with> and everything that came down it was just getting you into more trouble.
 
Old
Default
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 04:46 AM
(#9)
wikked76's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Karen3 View Post
I am not understanding why you would waste your chips in the first place preflop. Then as the board progressed what where you actually thinking? I can get a gut shot straight with all those cards on board. Yes you can hit your straight but if your opponent was just going for the flush you lost one of your outs.
To me it is one of those < why are you wasting chips to begin with> and everything that came down it was just getting you into more trouble.

i think i had good odds to call preflop, being that i had position as well OTB.

plan was to call flop with the gutshot draw, i guess the plan got kinda lost and went walkabout on the turn and river...

reckon suited connectors play pretty well too postflop.
and they look pretty nice as well
(just joking)
 
Old
Default
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 09:26 AM
(#10)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by wikked76 View Post
hey sam,
mine's a work in progress as well, that's why we're here sharing, discussing hands and ideas

btw, it's easier to range villain's hands after u've seen the results too
Ya ... hahaha!! Haven't yet figured out a way around that for the thing I'm doing in my Time Vault thread

Actually considered just opening up my hand histories, and using the 'ole 'close your eyes and use your finger to pick one' trick, but I wasn't getting good results. I mean ... I just considered it, yeah ...
 
Old
Default
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 10:25 AM
(#11)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,316
Hi wikked,

There's some good discussion here. Calling pre is fine, but if you're going to float the flop you need a plan, as you won't hit your gutshot very often.
When considering floating, I check to see the villain's barrelling frequency. The stat in my HUD is "c-bet turn". If it's less than 45%, villain will only bet the turn if he has a decent made hand or strong draw. If he's "one and done", you can often bet the turn in position with total air and take it down.
It especially applies if a scare card hits the turn and villain checks. On this board, if villain checks the turn when it's an ace, king, queen, 9, or diamond, you can bet. It would be hard for a hand like Tx to continue when you rep a better top pair, a straight or a flush.

As played, villain bets the turn, because the offsuit 9 doesn't particular scare him if he has top pair and an overcard, or a hand like that, as he won't put you on a gutterball. You actually hit it, but you have the idiot end of the straight. Your hand cannot get any better. It can only get relatively worse. I'm definitely raising here. You're beating everything except QJ, but villain has a range of overpairs, sets, top pair with an OESD/gutshot. He might also have barrelled with the flush draw and 2 overs. Some of these hands have outs to better hands to yours, so it's a raise for protection and value.
It's not such a bad thing if villain folds some of the hands that are drawing, as you'll capture 100% of the pot when you might have only "owned" 70% equity.
The board pairs on the river. Villain probably doesn't put you on an 8, but it's difficult to work out which hands in his range he would check on the river, and work out how many of them can call a bet. Would he take this line with JJ+? Probably. I think a hand like AT/KT would have checked a street for pot control, but this guy is pretty aggro, so perhaps not. I like your value bet on the river when he checks to you, as I think you get looked up by AT/JJ+.

His check-raise is super sick. He's saying "I have a boat/quads", but it's really dangerous for him to check a monster like that, as you can check behind with your marginal hands and not give him the value his big hand deserves.
While it's certainly true that many aggro players love getting fancy and go for check-raises when they have a real hand, I sometimes call here, because his line can also be a big bluff with a missed flush draw. When LAGs have a big stack, they can get a bit over-confident and try and bully you out of pots with spewy plays. (Yes, you're correct. His range is polarized to nuts or air).
So I'd sometimes make a hero call here and then immediately take a note about this villain's style. If he check-raised a monster on the river in this spot, he'll be sure to do it again, because he thinks it's solid poker. It's not. It misses tons of value when you check behind.

It's crucial to take notes on villains when they take unconventional lines. You lost some money here, but now you know this guy is tricky, you should be able to make a better decision against him next time.


Bracelet Winner

Last edited by ArtySmokesPS; Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 10:27 AM..
 
Old
Default
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 01:03 PM
(#12)
wikked76's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 385
@ sam:
good luck with that sam, hope it works out for yer

@ Arty:
as usual, another great post/analysis
did take down a couple of notes on villain, jus didn't know what colour coding label to use.. LOL
 
Old
Default
Sun Mar 17, 2013, 05:56 PM
(#13)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by wikked76 View Post
@ Arty:
as usual, another great post/analysis
Ya, Arty - very nice!!
 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com