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25NL FR Zoom: AKs semi-bluff on flop

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25NL FR Zoom: AKs semi-bluff on flop - Tue Mar 26, 2013, 04:18 AM
(#1)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
In this hand, the btn was fairly loose-passive running vpip 18% pfr 10% through 60 hands. The bb was unknown, but his stack size indicated that he was a weak player. Things developed pretty standard up until the btn raised the flop.

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-h...904_7868ECB058

The btn raise seemed strong, but I assumed I had 9 good outs to a flush and an A or K might be good if he could raise with an overpair or a draw himself. Most important though were the stack sizes. I hoped that by flatting the bb would feel compelled to move all in reopening the betting which he did.

Had the btn 4-bet, I probably would have folded rather than risk calling off my stack with a drawing hand. When he flatted, I thought I must have enough fold equity combined with my flush outs to make shoving profitable. Shoving felt risky, but it seemed to be the best line at the time.

How would you suggest playing the flop in this hand?

Thanks!

Roland GTX
 
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Tue Mar 26, 2013, 12:05 PM
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TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,476
(Head Trainer)
Hi Greg.

With $13 already in the middle I would move all in here directly to the button's raise. The problem with flatting is when the BB doesn't raise, we don't know what to do on the turn. If we miss how do we proceed with only 1 card to come? If we get there how to we get value without scaring off our action as a 3rd diamond will be a scary card to non-flushes.

Quote:
I hoped that by flatting the bb would feel compelled to move all in reopening the betting which he did.
What's your reasoning for this hope? I would assume a weak player on his stack would call or fold more often than back raise all in, it's what weak players do. If he was prepared to move all in I think he shoves over your flop raise more often than not. He did back raise all in on this individual trial, but I think this is usually not the result we'll get.

As played I am going with the hand right here on the flop ensuring we see both cards and the button, if he doesn't fold (don't think he will with this action sequence) can't get away from a scary card when we get there.


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Tue Mar 26, 2013, 12:59 PM
(#3)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Thanks Dave

You asked about my reasoning for "hoping that by flatting the bb would feel compelled to move all in reopening the betting which he did."

After you instructed me a while back in looking at a hand as a whole, rather than each street as a seperate situation, I have been noticing how weak players fail to do this as well. Weak players seem to react to the situation at hand without thinking about what has already happened or what is going to happen.

Therefore, it is only after the btn 3-bets and I call making for a very large pot that he realizes he wants to go the mat with this hand. The size of the pot makes it too hard to resist. So, he might as well just move move all in.

I see your point about him just calling/folding and creating a tough turn spot for myself. At the time I did expect the short stack to shove. I'll start paying more attention to the details of how the weaker players react in the future. It might be a Zoom thing, but more likely flawed logic on my part.

Thanks again!

Note to others: don't confuse a weak player that has become short stacked with a short stacking reg!
 
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Tue Mar 26, 2013, 01:12 PM
(#4)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,476
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland GTX View Post
After you instructed me a while back in looking at a hand as a whole, rather than each street as a seperate situation, I have been noticing how weak players fail to do this as well. Weak players seem to react to the situation at hand without thinking about what has already happened or what is going to happen.

Therefore, it is only after the btn 3-bets and I call making for a very large pot that he realizes he wants to go the mat with this hand. The size of the pot makes it too hard to resist. So, he might as well just move move all in.
I agree with this up until the last sentence. We would think like that (the last sentence) but how a random weak player processes their thoughts who knows what they will think. They may be ready to go to the mat but just call, planning to call the turn too if they miss or hit! And plenty of times I've seen them call, then fold the turn, which sounds insane on his stack but you'll see it. I just had a guy last night defend his BB with a 12 bb stack by calling my 3x open, donking into me for 5bb's on the flop, and folding when I put him all in. Crazy bad and it makes no sense, but bad players do things that make no sense all the time.


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