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2NL FR ZOOM - Top Pair OOP vs TAG

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2NL FR ZOOM - Top Pair OOP vs TAG - Tue Apr 02, 2013, 09:29 PM
(#1)
Low Rated's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 114
Hello All

Let me Start By saying I don't like making hero calls nor do i make them a regular habit but something about this just wasn't right.



Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner




Open in MP1 w/ QhJh and the 1st 3 villans fast fold. Table looks tight so i make my standard MP1/MP2 raise of 3BB. Seeing a flop wouldnt be the worse imo but i would prefer folds.

Get called from a reg on the button, seems like a TAG player to me so i assume thats what he is.

Flop top pair on a flush draw board so I lead out to keep the power and maybe force a fold.

He calls and im putting him on Ax spades maybe Qx better kicker or 2 pair. I bet big for a couple reasons; to make it look like im willing to play deep, to charge the flush draw and or to encourage a re raise from a monster hand and lose minimum.

I check the river expecting him to check behind w/ either a busted flush or Qx, boy was i wrong, he makes an almost pot sized bet. This bet is pretty big so im ranging him on either a monster (lets include 2 pair as a monster in this case) or air. TAGs dont usually step out of line but something is biting me, this bet was made pretty fast and is pretty big but I showed strength through out the hand so he has to know i have something. I decide its to big(and fast) for a value and make the call.

Im really not sure about this one, how often is this call correct?
 
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Wed Apr 03, 2013, 07:25 AM
(#2)
mimesis.is's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 74
Preflop is good.
I like the flop and turn bets. You do need to charge draws which you've done. Obviously QT,KJ,9T all just improved past you on the turn and AQ,KQ,J8,99,77,QQ,KK,AA had you crushed but you're still ahead of plenty of straight and flush draws etc. (most two spades, 56,K8,K9,J9,AK) and it's always possible that he had a good Tx or suited connector and didn't respect your cbet.

River is a blank so if you were ahead on the turn you're still ahead now but checking for pot control/to induce a bluff from a busted draw is a good play imo. It's just a shame that the board had the T,9,7 come out to improve so many of the worse kickers that you beat.

You're getting about 3.2:1 on a call here and I'd probably be calling this one down but it's a close one.


Will be very interested to see what the HA's have to say.
 
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reply - Wed Apr 03, 2013, 09:18 AM
(#3)
glenn161274's Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 146
I like the way you played this hand overall, i would have certainly played the same way preflop and with the c bet on the flop. I do not think he has a very strong hand as a TAG player would have most probably 3 bet preflop. The only hand which i was worried about was KJ when i first looked at the hand with his flat call preflop and flat call the flop KJ would have definately played the hand the same way.And if he had KJ i think we might have heard from him before his stab on the river . You did not say if your plan was always to check call a blank river card, as your check on the river might well look like a busted flush or similar draw so i think your check actually induced the other player to take a stab at winning the pot. But your reasoning of he bet too quickly i actually like as alot of players when trying to bluff at the pot will just fire out a very quick bet thinking it will look like they have a really strong hand , the problem with that is the way he played the hand in every situation before this looked the complete opposite so i really like your call based on the read you picked up.
 
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Wed Apr 03, 2013, 10:55 AM
(#4)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,517
(Head Trainer)
Hi Low Rated,

First I'm finding myself wondering about your read. "seems like a TAG player to me"... how so? It's Zoom, so you haven't been sitting there with him, and you don't indicate having HUD stats... plus the way you phrase it indicates a lack of confidence in the read. I think we should treat villains as readless without direct stats or player notes, or in game observations to work with.

Quote:
Flop top pair on a flush draw board so I lead out to keep the power and maybe force a fold.
The reason to be betting this flop is for value. The only hands that will fold are all hands that you're beating solidly at this point.

I'm not sure I like this turn bet. We are charging draws (mostly spades) but at the same time pretty much all made hands that called the flop AND that will continue on the turn are beating us. AQ, KQ, QT, 77, 99, TT or T9 that floated the flop.

You seem content to bet and fold to a raise here, but I'm not so sure as we've picked up a straight draw. I would really like a bet/fold line with a hand like AQ here where we have more worse hands that can call us (KQ, QJ) and little chance to improve to a winner over 2 pair+ when we get raised. With this hand strength though I think check/call is a better line on the turn with most made hands beating us and having pickup up a bunch of outs vs. 2 pair+ which I really don't want to get raised off of.

As played I think the river line is good. His big bet is going to be a bluff quite frequently. Better 1 pair hands would tend to check back or make a small bet for thin value, and 2 pair+ would usually raise the flop or turn on a wet board, so without reads I'd expect this large bet to be a monster (basically KJ or J8s that slow played the turn) or a busted draw bluffing... in other words it polarizes his range imo and there are way more busted draws than monsters, so I'd call him too.


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Wed Apr 03, 2013, 12:04 PM
(#5)
Low Rated's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 114
Thanks for the response and analysis guys

Yeah I really shouldn't assume villans play any particular style without a basis. Its a habit I use to give myself some confidence post flop. This was the first hand I played with this guy and I don't even own a HUD or Tracker

Top pair on a flush draw board bets for value not folds. Must repeat 100 times. Now that I think about it I really could have bet more on the flop

On the turn I felt he most likely hand a drawing hand as opposed to a monster/2pair which is why I fired again but I will keep checking in mind as a viable option in the future when I have a chance to improve to the nuts.

GL at the tables guys
 

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