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How do I deal with constant all-inning?

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How do I deal with constant all-inning? - Sat Apr 06, 2013, 02:32 PM
(#1)
NfinITE55's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 6
I'm pretty new to competitive poker, I have been reading a bunch of strategies and they all tell me that as a beginner I should be playing "tight-aggressive". So I join some of these very very low buy-in sit n go tournaments (0.02c, 0.10c) and I find that there's absolutely not oppurtunity to try any of these strategies, because in nearly every pre-flop that I might consider playing, there's somebody going all-in, and so I fold having something like JK off suit. Or I'll go all-in out of frustration or having a decent hand and win or lose depending on the flop.

I'm just not sure how to find a table where all these poker strategies that I'm trying to learn are actually being employed without spending more then a dollar or two per table. Anyone know of a better place to learn? These games don't feel even remotely like the real thing because people are constantly going all-in pre-flop with hands like 5Q off suit or 66. Could use some recommendations. ._.
 
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Sat Apr 06, 2013, 02:34 PM
(#2)
NfinITE55's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 6
Oh oops, I didn't see the full topic, this thread isn't right for the board. my bad.
 
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Sat Apr 06, 2013, 03:00 PM
(#3)
DrDonkin's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 874
You could try the 25c 45 and 90 mans as a place to start and also the 10c mtts with 50$ added
 
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Sat Apr 06, 2013, 03:15 PM
(#4)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,286
Next week the PSO Spring fever series starts, these are all small buy-in tourneys as well as play money games. The competition is very good and there are very few crazy all in plays. Hope to see you there.



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Sat Apr 06, 2013, 04:02 PM
(#5)
HokyPokyToo's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,901
**moved to tournaments' section (MTTs & STTs)**


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Last edited by HokyPokyToo; Sat Apr 06, 2013 at 06:15 PM..
 
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Sat Apr 06, 2013, 04:04 PM
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Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by NfinITE55 View Post
I'm pretty new to competitive poker, I have been reading a bunch of strategies and they all tell me that as a beginner I should be playing "tight-aggressive". So I join some of these very very low buy-in sit n go tournaments (0.02c, 0.10c) and I find that there's absolutely not oppurtunity to try any of these strategies, because in nearly every pre-flop that I might consider playing, there's somebody going all-in, and so I fold having something like JK off suit. Or I'll go all-in out of frustration or having a decent hand and win or lose depending on the flop.

I'm just not sure how to find a table where all these poker strategies that I'm trying to learn are actually being employed without spending more then a dollar or two per table. Anyone know of a better place to learn? These games don't feel even remotely like the real thing because people are constantly going all-in pre-flop with hands like 5Q off suit or 66. Could use some recommendations. ._.

Hi NfinITE55.

There's a couple things we need to do here to get you in a better spot for what you're trying to do.

First thing is,BEFORE you play another game,stop,take a good,hard look around the lobby at ALL the games that are within you bankroll parameters and look closely at the structure of those games. That means the time intervals from one blind jump to another,how the blinds are structured (are they big jumps...how soon do antes come into play...these sorts of things),what percentage of the player pool gets paid (is "in the money" at 20%;15%;...less?) and how is the payout structure weighted (top heavy...more evenly distributed...am I getting more than a couple pennies back on a min-cash...).

ALL of these things and others matter since as a newer player game selection will be very crucial to your advancement.

When you look you'll see that those 990-man .02 games are HYPER-Turbos...you start with 1500 chips and the BB opens at 50,which is more than your standard structure game will be (most of the time the opening BB in those is 20). Plus there are antes from the get go and with a 3 minute time structure per level you'll definitely be on at least the second blind level (50/100 with a 20 ante) before the FIRST table orbit is over. It's a super fast structure,even big stacks on the FT are never going to be deep-stacked in it so basically you can't sit there and wait for a big hand. If you HAVEN'T shoved all-in before the first orbit is over,at least once,then you're playing these wrong. THAT'S why you'll see such a wide range of hands (basically be prepared to see ATC,"any two cards",shoved a lot in these early). Plus...it's 2 cents.

The .10 360's are standard Turbo structure so a little calmer,but still crazy play early in these is more the rule than the exception. And even at the end game of the FT you're not likely to see a very high standard of poker being played. Remember...it's a dime.

DrDonkin gives you some good advice in his post. You'll find the .25 45 and 90 man Sit'N'Goes to be a much calmer game than any of the .02/.10 games. It's non-Turbo structure so you won't be on a "push/fold" (around 10BB or less) stack as quickly. They ARE .25 games however so you're still going to see bad/crazy play from most players as the rule,not the exception. Make sure you are responsibly bank-rolled for these (I would advise AT LEAST 50 buy-ins,or $12.50,but since you're very inexperienced by your admission 100 buy-ins may be better still...you WILL experience variance runs and want to be insulated against this...).

If you are properly rolled for the .25's then DRDonkin's suggestion of the .10 MTT's is also a good one. They ARE Turbos but the thing that makes these so good a play is the VALUE. What I mean by that is that PokerStars adds $50 to the prize pool in these. What that means objectively is that the equivalent of the buy-in for 500 players is added to the pool,only the players don't exist. That's a great value and exactly the kind of thing to look for when searching around for game selection. The .25 ($100) MTT is great for this as well. These MTT's run at 4AM,10AM and 4PM (all times EST) for the .10's and 10PM (EST) for the .25. Additionally the .25 is a standard structure blind and nlind jump time interval wise. As a matter of fact with jumps every 12 minutes instead of 10 it's actually a little slower. When Americans could play here this was pretty much my favorite tourney to play,many of your fellow PSO members play it a lot and also like it.

If your bank roll is too small for this then don't despair. Put nose to grindstone and hit those Astronomer freerolls,get some Weekly Round 2 tickets and grind up your roll. You're a new player on a small roll. That means for the time being a great rule of thumb for you is...

FREE IS MY FRIEND. IF IT'S FREE,IT'S FOR ME.


You can learn while you earn. And this path will,if you stick with it,teach you patience. There is quite simply NO lesson in poker that you can ever learn that will be more valuable.

If you are properly rolled to dive into those .25 45 and 90 mans then I suggest that you first head to the video section,pull up Dave's (TheLangolier) and Andy's (Ahar010) sections,as they both have several good instructive and informative videos on these games. Hell,just seeing the play itself and the type of plays you'll see people make in these will be helpful.

Once you feel you're ready to start grinding these,TAKE COPIOUS NOTES. Notes are your best ammo in these if you take a lot of them and they're constructive. Another video that will be of great aid to you is TheLangolier's "Effective Note Taking" video. Pure gold.

Don't be afraid to post hands that you found tricky or think you may have made a dodgy play on. The analyzers in the MTT/SNG hand analysis section and many of your school mates will gladly give you their opinions. Try to provide as much information on the other player involved in the hand as possible (loose...tight...3-bet light...how much history do you have with them...10 hand,100,more?...all of this is helpful...pretty much ANY scrap of information is relevant...).

So remember...
Proper BR management;

game selection that fits your style and comfort level;

no matter what you play TAKE EFFECTIVE NOTES;

be active here,post hands and ask for help as often as you feel the need;

do NOT get frustrated when things run badly,it's inevitable,examine your play all the more at these times;

to that point,self examination of your play immediately after every session...this is a great habit to get into RIGHT NOW,so download those hand histories of action hands and tricky spots to a file and pore over them;

oh and lastly and most importantly...HAVE FUN.

Good luck/Better decisions.

Last edited by Moxie Pip; Sat Apr 06, 2013 at 04:14 PM..
 
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Sat Apr 06, 2013, 04:27 PM
(#7)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
How to deal with constent all in's, Get a great hand and scoop the pot.

If the table is playing loose we need to play very tight.

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sat Apr 06, 2013, 05:23 PM
(#8)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grade b View Post
How to deal with constent all in's, Get a great hand and scoop the pot.

If the table is playing loose we need to play very tight.

Grade b

In the .02 Hypers "very tight" equals blinded out b.

As a general rule of thumb though,yes,tightening up and waiting for our spot is the way to go on a spazzy table. But within the constraints of turbo and especially hyper-turbo structures that's oft times not possible or advisable.
 
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Sat Apr 06, 2013, 05:37 PM
(#9)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,353
Some great replies in the thread, especially Moxie's detailed answer.

I'll just go along and say that the 2c and 10c hypers are not a great way to learn. (You can be profitable in them, but it requires a fair bit of luck. Aces will get cracked in these games much more often than in standard tourneys or cash games, because so many players make desperate shoves, so it's not uncommon to see a 4-way or 5-way all in.)
Better for newbies are the games already mentioned.

25c 90-mans (in the MTT SnG tab in the lobby) have 15 minute levels, so they give you time to make reads and offer plenty of play for your money. 45-player tourneys have 10-minute blinds but are still good. Even super-nits can make money on those.
The 10c turbos with added cash are fine too.
Once you've earned some FPPs, the 10 and 20FPP tourneys have very good prize pools.

There's also the PSO Open League and Premier League. The Open League has very large fields (10k) and some spectacularly bad players, and a very tight strategy works very well there (don't play anything but QQ+, AK for the first few orbits, and be very cautious with anything but the nuts post-flop), but you need to play a few of the tourneys every day of the month, because the real money comes from having a good position on the league table. http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/art...n_skill_league

And of course the PSO homegames. The Spring Fever series should be a lot of fun, and you'll be playing against (semi-)serious players and may even learn a bit of strategy too. I definitely recommend you join the homegame for those, as it will also be a good way to make friends on the forum. http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...iscussion-Page


Bracelet Winner
 
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Sat Apr 06, 2013, 07:01 PM
(#10)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moxie Pip View Post
In the .02 Hypers "very tight" equals blinded out b.

As a general rule of thumb though,yes,tightening up and waiting for our spot is the way to go on a spazzy table. But within the constraints of turbo and especially hyper-turbo structures that's oft times not possible or advisable.

This could be why I don't do very well in these turbos then...am a bit tempted to play some 2 cent games to see what I could do.

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sat Apr 06, 2013, 08:01 PM
(#11)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grade b View Post
This could be why I don't do very well in these turbos then...am a bit tempted to play some 2 cent games to see what I could do.
I think the way to beat them is to have a solid pushbot chart, but it would take a fair bit of tailoring to this particular minefield. There's not a lot you can do when you make a standard 10bb shove w/ JTs in BvB and the fish makes a non-standard call with Q4o.

Since you're a decent post-flop player, you have more of an edge playing deepstacked/slower structures against fish and just value-betting them to death.


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Sat Apr 06, 2013, 10:17 PM
(#12)
NfinITE55's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 6
Thanks a ton for all of the advice, I was unaware of all of this stuff about turbo games and such. I have the bankroll to play a large amount of those .25 cent ones, I think I'll stick with the 90 mans because I like the longer, tighter game.

I'll definitely make more progress with the poker school, I have a ton to learn.

I really appreciate the effort you guys put in to helping me out!

-NfinITE55
 
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Sun Apr 07, 2013, 10:33 AM
(#13)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
Hi NfinITE55,

If you are playing the 25Cent games AHAR010 has several training videos which can be found here

http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/art...videos-ahar010

best of luck

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sun May 26, 2013, 06:30 PM
(#14)
Keed Spills!'s Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 2
Some good points here, 0.25c 45/90s are the best way to build a roll and there are tons more play in them. The ahar010 sessions are exactly the right place to start.

The 0.02c & 0.10c are strictly turbos. In turbos you are so shallow stacked due to the blinds rocketing up that a lot of the time the only move with anything playable is to shove all-in with <10-15bb, therefore anything is shove territory when the antes have kicked in, as this is the case tighten up your calling ranges against people who have you covered.

Learn your pushbot/callbot charts and play a tight aggro strategy, also never give up! have made some sweet chip n chair comebacks after being all in on bb and very satisfying when it happens.

There is a small bit of play in the early levels if you have built a stack but never limp anything after the first two blind levels and be willing to gamble when you need chips and you will soon start seeing results.

That being said turbos are a pain in the butt and you need to run like god!
 

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