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nuts - Mon Apr 08, 2013, 09:26 AM
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BlackHolden4's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
Posts: 62
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I was wondering about this term used in poker.
If a question asks you "how many outs on the turn will give you the nuts?", does that mean how many cards on the turn will give you the best possible hand. Or does it mean, how many cards on the turn will give you the best hand that beats everyone else too.

Example.

Say you have: Ks Qs 9d 2c

Flop is: Js 10s 5c 3h

So for you to get the nuts on the turn, you would like to see an Ace of spades so give you a royal flush. You would also have the nuts if a 9 of spades came up, straight flush.
That beats any other hand on the board. So I calculated two outs.

However, could you also add on the other spades to give you a flush? I thought that if another player had the Ace of spades and another spade then they would beat your flush, so it's not really the nuts if you add on all the other spades is it?

The question didn't have 2 as an answer. it had just 1, 4 and so on.

Anyone know how to help? Thanks

Last edited by BlackHolden4; Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 09:28 AM..
 
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Mon Apr 08, 2013, 09:33 AM
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Sentras's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 122
The river in your example is indeed the As and 9s to give you the nuts.
There is no other possible hand capable of beating your royal flush or straight flush with your Ks Qs.

So yes you only speak of the nuts if you have the best possible hand. This can also be on the flop for example

27J rainbow here JJ (set of jacks is the nuts)
However on the turn there could come a different nuts.

Now lets say there is a flushdraw. and you have the A. Then any other flushcard will give you the nuts, unless a fullhouse, quads, straightflush or royal flush is possible

Hope this helped you out, although it seemed like you already understood the concept.

Best regards,
Sentras
 
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Mon Apr 08, 2013, 02:21 PM
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ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,355
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHolden4 View Post
I was wondering about this term used in poker.
If a question asks you "how many outs on the turn will give you the nuts?", does that mean how many cards on the turn will give you the best possible hand. Or does it mean, how many cards on the turn will give you the best hand that beats everyone else too.
The "best possible hand" obviously beats everyone else; that's what makes it the nuts. However, the best possible hand that you can make may or may not be the absolute nuts on certain boards. Against a known hand for villain though, there might be outs that you have that lead him to be drawing dead.
With regard to this quiz question, was villain's hand also provided?

I ask because there were a couple of typos for some of the questions when the Omaha quiz was launched, but I think the team has identified and fixed them now. If you spot a question/answer that looks wrong, please take a screengrab and post it in the thread.

Cheers,
Arty

EDIT: Just looking at that question again, you also have 3 non-spade 8s that make the nut straight. (On a board of JT538, with no flush possible, Q9 is the nuts).


Bracelet Winner

Last edited by ArtySmokesPS; Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 02:29 PM..
 
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Mon Apr 08, 2013, 09:48 PM
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TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
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Have you been trying to pass that Omaha quiz? I took it a couple of weeks ago and failed on the first go - it was hard!!

And then, just forgetting about the quiz for a minute, I've actually been trying to learn how to play Omaha as my 'fun project' for this year - also very hard!!


Guess that's *supposed* to be a good board, for when we have connectors? When there's 2-to-a-straight, and we hold the other 3-to-a-straight ... preferably the upper 3, or something like that? We're not allowed to cite sources of articles we post from the 'net, but it should come up if you search for a passage:




But then, there's this other stuff I guess we're supposed to consider too in dealing with straight draws ... 'trap-wraps'?




Also there was this tip that Dave (TheLangolier) gave in HA:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
You can think about the PLO hand as 6 holdem hands ... KcQcJsTs for example is playing KcQc, KcJs, KcTs, QcJs, QcTs, JsTs ...

Maybe this'll be interesting to try and figure out - it may be one of the questions I got wrong on the quiz

Hand:
Board:

And the 2c doesn't seem to matter? So I guess the holdem hands would be:






So ...

Hand 1 -

Flush draw - 2 straight flush outs , ... but no other spades, if somebody else is holding the nut flush draw (2)

Straight draw - the other 3 (3) (EDIT: Should be (6) ... see below)


Hand 2 -

Flush draw - none

Straight draw - none? (not the Q?)


Hand 3 -

Flush draw - none

Straight draw - Arty picked up on this one ... all non-spade ? But not the K? (3)


Gosh ... so, was 8 an option?

Last edited by TrustySam; Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 05:44 PM.. Reason: Had 3+3 down as = 3 :/
 
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yep - Tue Apr 09, 2013, 05:18 AM
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BlackHolden4's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
Posts: 62
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Hey there. Maybe it is a good idea to try and play it too! It seems quite difficult, more thinking required. I always stick to the texas as I enjoy that one.

I did pass the test today, it made more sense this time. However, I did take 3 attempts or 4 to do it.

The 8 outs was also what I calculated. Though, I can't remember if this is an option on the test and I think that is why I may have been confused. I think the options may have been 7 or 9. I'll need to go back and have a look though as I might be wrong!! 8 outs for sure.

there is another question on there which asks how many outs on turn would give you the nuts if you have something like a 9heart 9club 7spade Jspade. flop is 9spade 10spade 2diamond 3heart. or whatever.
I put the answer down as one out being the left over 9 to give you 4 9s.
I excluded the other 9 spades because if they did come up, somebody could be sitting with 2 higher spades than you. They would beat you on the flush. it may have been a straight draw in the question but again I can't remember. How do you take a screen shot?

Last edited by BlackHolden4; Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 05:20 AM..
 
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Tue Apr 09, 2013, 08:07 AM
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ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,355
How do you take a screen shot? If you're using a PC, then hold ALT on your keyboard and hit the "Print Scrn" button (usually towards the top right of your keyboard). That will copy the page into your clipboard. You can then paste it into a new document in any image editing program. Finally you have to upload it to something like photobucket or imageshack and put the link in the thread.


Bracelet Winner
 
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Tue Apr 09, 2013, 06:14 PM
(#7)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrustySam View Post
Maybe this'll be interesting to try and figure out - it may be one of the questions I got wrong on the quiz

Hand:
Board:

And the 2c doesn't seem to matter? So I guess the holdem hands would be:






So ...

Hand 1 -

Flush draw - 2 straight flush outs , ... but no other spades, if somebody else is holding the nut flush draw (2)

Straight draw - the other 3 (3)


Hand 2 -

Flush draw - none

Straight draw - none? (not the Q?)


Hand 3 -

Flush draw - none

Straight draw - Arty picked up on this one ... all non-spade ? But not the K? (3)


Gosh ... so, was 8 an option?

Correction:

For Hand 1 - , Straight draw - the other 3 (3) ... should be (3) x 2 = (6) !! D'oh!!

So I guess the right answer should be 11?

EDIT: Hey, you know what - I typed a whole long message, and then my power blipped out for about 30 seconds, so I was expecting to log back in and have lost the whole thing, ready to whine about my tech issues, fml, etc ... and what do you know, some of it got saved Google Chrome!!

Anyways ...


Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHolden4 View Post
Hey there. Maybe it is a good idea to try and play it too! It seems quite difficult, more thinking required. I always stick to the texas as I enjoy that one.

I did pass the test today, it made more sense this time. However, I did take 3 attempts or 4 to do it.

Big congrats on the pass!! Those quizzes are kind of frustrating, because when we fail we don't get any feedback about which questions it is we got wrong, and which we got right. And then we have to wait another 24 hours and stuff. So happy to be done with that Omaha one

Still not sure what to make of Omaha ... there's actually *still* times in holdem where I overestimate the number of clean outs with combo draws, etc. And it kind of seems like maybe no matter which variant of poker we play, being able to fold strong 2nd best hands is key? There's this other article on the internet about being careful about drawing to less than the nuts in Omaha especially:





Like I guess in the quiz hand above, the could make second-best straight if a non-spade fell on the river ... but then what if somebody were holding and had the nuts?

I don't know ... still experimenting I guess


For the screen caps, I use freeware that's available at Cnet, called PhotoScape. It's very nice, for the price

PhotoScape from CNet: http://download.cnet.com/PhotoScape/...ml?tag=mncol;4


GL with your games!!
 

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