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25NL FR Zoom: 4-betting a TAG

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25NL FR Zoom: 4-betting a TAG - Thu Apr 11, 2013, 06:12 AM
(#1)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
This hand is from 25NL Zoom. I have noticed that many TAG regs have a high 3-bet% from the blinds when facing a steal raise from the CO or BTN. Also, that they tend to 3-bet in spots like this one when facing a raise and call from a weak player. In other words, TAGs seem to 3-bet light against ABC players. Is this standard?

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-h...691_25AF99D428

V2 is a loose-passive player over 150 hands. V3 is a solid TAG reg. I have 1K+ hands on him. He has 3-bet my btn steals several times. I flatted him two weeks ago in one of these spots and he showed down 75s.

This is the first time I have ever 4-bet light, but it looked like a good spot to give it a try. Especially since my EP raise usually means a very strong hand. I expected him to fold. I would have folded to a shove. And I would have been in a very difficult spot had he just called.

Does this seem like a viable approach to be used against TAGs in general?

Also, what is the standard bet size when 4-betting? This is a pretty new area for me.

Thanks!

Roland GTX
 
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Thu Apr 11, 2013, 09:09 AM
(#2)
adohole's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,083
BronzeStar
heey roland, seems this was a good 4 bet spot, but i personaly like to flat in these positions since you are in possition you can look what he does on the flop.


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Thu Apr 11, 2013, 12:21 PM
(#3)
Low Rated's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 114
Hey Roland GTX.

Idk about the level of TAGs at 25NL but generally TAGs at lower limits do 3-bet button steals often. Probably beacause they steal buttons often they expect other people to do this. When you call into their 3-bets in position they will almost always donk bet a ridiculously high pot percentage. Just remember, if they call your 4-bet, you've probably already won the pot since that is a huge mistake, be ready to do what it takes to win on the flop or lose the minimum trying.

EDIT: Oh and another thing. If this guy defends from the blinds as much as I'm lead to belive, that's definately a leak. He will spew a fair amount of chips whenever the 3-bet fails.

Last edited by Low Rated; Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 02:30 PM.. Reason: Addition to previous reply ~
 
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Thu Apr 11, 2013, 04:34 PM
(#4)
GarethC23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,273
Hey Roland

I like four-betting here, of course to fold to a shove.

I think your size is too big though. I think you could get away with just 7$. If you know the opponent you can even get away with less sometimes! But for the time being, something like 7$ is a great place to start.

You are projecting huge strength no matter what. If anything 7$ looks scarier than 8$+. It looks like you have an absolute monster, where some opponents will be more prone to put you on AKo the more you four bet.

Congrats on losing your light four bet virginity. And you got paid to do it too!
 
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Thu Apr 11, 2013, 05:09 PM
(#5)
UrGetinTaxed's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 189
ur 4 bet is far too big i think, it says in my book here (the poker blue print) a 4 bet should never be more than 30 BB,s. the correct amount is between 2.1 - 2.5 times the 3 bet size. (tried to upload the page im reading for u but epic fail )

QAo prolly too strong here to 4 bet in position tho against a light 3 bettor...
 
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Thu Apr 11, 2013, 05:25 PM
(#6)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrGetinTaxed View Post
ur 4 bet is far too big i think, it says in my book here (the poker blue print) a 4 bet should never be more than 30 BB,s. the correct amount is between 2.1 - 2.5 times the 3 bet size. (tried to upload the page im reading for u but epic fail )

QAo prolly too strong here to 4 bet in position tho against a light 3 bettor...
Oh, what book are you reading? I bought a whole bunch of books when I was first trying to learn poker - the 'poker celebrity' ones I didn't wind up finding so helpful (Daniel Negreanu, Phil Hellmuth, etc), but the Malmuth/Sklansky type ones were great for learning the basics I thought.

But when it comes to plugging leaks and stuff, I've been finding the resources here at PSO way more helpful? Like Live Training, the video library - especially when they're tailored to particular games on Stars?

But it's always fun to find a good book! TMGP2 should be out soon, there's that too (The Mental Game of Poker 2 )

Last edited by TrustySam; Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 05:27 PM..
 
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Fri Apr 12, 2013, 12:34 AM
(#7)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
@Sam, The Poker Blueprint is the name of the book. http://www.amazon.com/The-Poker-Blue.../dp/0982402236

I agree with Gareth's analysis, but am a bit lost on why there is all the discussion about the villain's 3-betting our button steals? We are UTG+1, what does villains 3b frequency vs. steal raises have to do with this hand??


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Fri Apr 12, 2013, 02:21 AM
(#8)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Thanks for all the input everyone!

@Dave, I had history with the villain catching him 3-betting my btn steal light. It was all part of my notes and read on the villain. I had written "V3 is a solid TAG reg. I have 1K+ hands on him. He has 3-bet my btn steals several times. I flatted him two weeks ago in one of these spots and he showed down 75s". Was 3-betting light a villain spesific note, or a general tendency of TAGs.

@UrGettinTaxed, thanks for the 4-bet size recommendations!

@Gareth, thanks! Being a 44 year old virgin kinda sucked

Several of you mentioned calling the 3-bet. I see how this can be good, but personally, I know Im going to struggel with this hand postflop. I would rather take it down now rather than creating an unclear situation with a big pot. I lke to keep it simple

Greg (Roland GTX)
 
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Fri Apr 12, 2013, 05:19 PM
(#9)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
@Sam, The Poker Blueprint is the name of the book. http://www.amazon.com/The-Poker-Blue.../dp/0982402236
Oh ... bwahaha!! Okay, thanks Dave!!
 

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