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$3.5R 180man 4 handed facing a short stack shove

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$3.5R 180man 4 handed facing a short stack shove - Sat Apr 13, 2013, 05:55 PM
(#1)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
is this a call?

Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner
 
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Mon Apr 15, 2013, 07:32 AM
(#2)
ChewMe1's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 574
Hi marvinsytan

Very close but I think this is a fold. If the average stack sizes weren't so shallow I believe this would be a call. 60k is 20% of our stack which could ultimately guide us to a victory. We are getting a good price but imo risking 20% of our chips is a big deal in these spots where the average stack sizes are very short.

Cheers, Chris.
 
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Mon Apr 15, 2013, 08:54 AM
(#3)
adohole's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,083
BronzeStar
heey chris this is one time i dont agree with you, he is risking 63k to win like 210k you should even call if he has AA i would have snapped called here


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Mon Apr 15, 2013, 10:09 AM
(#4)
chuckkky's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 913
Hey marvin,

I think It's close but I would of folded as well.

He is prob fairly strong to be shoving here imo.

As Chris said if we call an lose we will have to take bigger risks earlier.

But if we call and win we have a big advantage.

If you think you have a edge on your opponents i would fold.
If you think your are opponents are strong, I would call to bully them if I won

chuckkky
 
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Mon Apr 15, 2013, 11:10 AM
(#5)
ChewMe1's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 574
Quote:
Originally Posted by adohole View Post
heey chris this is one time i dont agree with you, he is risking 63k to win like 210k you should even call if he has AA i would have snapped called here
Hi dude, I think that there is an argument for both calling and folding. Ultimately it is very close. Although we are getting a great price on our money, we are also risking a large amount of our chips.

What we have here is a tough ICM decision to make. I personally wouldn't call with 35s, I would preserve my chips to hopefully put pressure on the other players and increase my chances of making the top 3.

It would be a different story if we had 20 bb's, we could afford to make the call if we had that many chips but we don't, we have only 11 big blinds.

I'm not familiar with holdemresources.net but if someone was to run this hand through it, it would be very close and I would imagine it would be a fold.

What does everybody else think? Personally I think it's VERY close, my range here is going to be very wide but 35s isn't going to have enough equity imo. If we make this call 1000 times then we will show a profit but the logic I'm using is to pass up this close spot because of ICM reasons.

Cheers, Chris.
 
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Mon Apr 15, 2013, 11:27 AM
(#6)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
Adohole,

In your way of thinking, that means you should be calling every hand you play. If someone bets 500 chips and it costs you 250, you'll double your money.....WRONG THINKING.
There's more to a decision than just the amount of chips and I absolutely agree with Chris,
"It would be a different story if we had 20 bb's, we could afford to make the call if we had that many chips but we don't, we have only 11 big blinds"

It's a fold because I need more than 1 criteria to help me in my decision
 
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Mon Apr 15, 2013, 12:08 PM
(#7)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,817
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Hey all!

I thought I'd put my cent and a half into this, as I put it thru the ICM calc.

My instincts here said to fold too because the big $$ is in the top 3, especailly the top 2 and I want to preserve a top 2 chip position. The difference between 2nd and 4th is basically triple my return. I'd be risking about 13% of the prize pool to add only 10% to a 2nd place finish if I'd win. If I could gain a higher % than I'm risking, then I'd lean more toward playing it.

However, I hope I did this right, I put the numbers into the ICM calculator... and here is the call range that it gives me (that HIGHLY surprised me). 22+ Tx+ 92s+ 94o+ 82s+ 84o+ 72s+ 74o+ 62s+ 64o+ 52s+ 53o+ 42s+ 32s

Even with the ICM range, I'm with Chris on it... it's really close, but I'm folding and preserving a top 2 chip stack.

John (JWK24)


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Mon Apr 15, 2013, 03:45 PM
(#8)
adohole's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,083
BronzeStar
there is one thing marvin didnt put in the trhead thats is he was verry agro (i was railing him at the final table)so that makes it even less certain that he has an overpair. i think where just getting to good of odds here.
one other thing if he calls and loses he has till 230k wich would still be the second stack and if he calls he has 420k and whith that amount he can run over the table. with still having the second steck you not giving to much awayv in ICM number. so i understand what you guys are thinking with icm but i dont think this is the right spot to think about it that way. would have been tending more to a fold if the 3rd stack would have like 250k

@sandtrap i am the player who is just to tight vs the min raise preflop but this is diffrent since where just putting in money once and if you call the bmin raise there he will be able to bluff you of pretty much all the time and here its call and its over so this is a totaly diffrent spot.

ps. i love this discusion we can all learn from eachother hope this happens at more hands


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Mon Apr 15, 2013, 10:52 PM
(#9)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
love all your opinions

ty guys appreciate it

tough spot very very tough spot
 

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