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Tilt - Help

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Tilt - Help - Sun Apr 14, 2013, 07:24 AM
(#1)
riveredme1's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 34
Hi Guys/Girls,

Hope you're all winning ( at the tables that I'm not at, of course )...

Anyway I got back on stars after a while off, due to battling the Big C and so far winning but need another operation soon. My previous performances on Stars had ranged from very poor making, stupid moves out of position and chasing flushes and straights whilst having nowhere near +EV, to average being lucky at times.

Anyway whilst I was away from here I read some books, watched some vids etc in order to improve my game,which, by the way, I think I have done, although I still sometimes play hands that have -EV without realising at the time... However one thing remains that I cannot control.... yep - TILT... It kills me but I can't stop...

Example - I deposited £30 on Friday to get me back into the swing of things and I did pretty well, ending the night with £45 playing 6 max 10nl.

Saturday I was down about £14, mainly due to getting all in pre-flop with AKs and the villain had the A's, I must add the villain had been 3Betting quite a bit so I 4Bet all in thinking he was bluffing... Anyway I could handle that got done by the better hand from the off.

What I couldn't handle and eventually led to me blasting away my bankroll was the next all in... I was slowly chipping away at my losses for the day so far, think I had clawed it back to being about £6-7 down. I was dealt pocket Q's, the villain, from early position, for no apparent reason RFI to £1.60, baring in mind the blinds was 0.05/0.10...
I decided to 3Bet to £5 and the villain called, the flop came 4s 8h 8d, the villain checked and I pushed he showed Q-8

That was it, it sent me into a frenzy and no matter how much I knew I was tilting I couldn't stop... All that was going round in my head was that I was playing quite well at the time, grinding my losses for the day back and with one stupid move (in my opinion) my losses had tripled from £6-7 to £21... Needless to say I spent the next hour calling with stupid hands out of position and trying to bluff my way out of it but getting caught to the point I lost bankroll...

Now I want to make a point that the money side of things wasn't the issue, it was only £14ish I lost to the villain in that hand, which in the grand scheme of things isn't a huge amount. It was more the fact I was beaten by such a poor move...

Anyway my question at the end of all this is - has anyone suffered with the same sort of tilt, specifically relating to the way you lost the hand as opposed to the amounts involved? and if you have suffered from that kind of tilt, did you overcome it and how?

Many thanks in advance for any responses and sorry for all the waffle...
 
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Sun Apr 14, 2013, 02:37 PM
(#2)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Hey, welcome!!


And hope things are going well for you health-wise

There might be some bankroll management stuff you could set up to help avoid losing too much of your roll at a time, but that's not stuff I've ever spent too much time learning about. So hopefully somebody who knows more'll stop in soon to help


I've had to worry a lot about tilt though!! And have gotten a lot of great tips in the forum as a result - as you can imagine, the subject comes up a lot around here ... think we've all been in 'that spot'!!


There's the let it Ride approach that I was told about, but then the cards pretty much kicked me to the curb and stabbed me in the heart, and that just crushed me

Then I made friends with this piece of advice to set in place a stop-loss of 3 buy-ins, and that seems to going okay? I think??

A bunch of us were discussing stop-losses here: Do you have a stop loss?


I really like the stop-loss ... hopefully others will stop in with other tips?


PS Oh no, my internet seems to have gotten patchy again

Last edited by TrustySam; Sun Apr 14, 2013 at 02:39 PM..
 
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Sun Apr 14, 2013, 04:49 PM
(#3)
riveredme1's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrustySam View Post
Hey, welcome!!


And hope things are going well for you health-wise

There might be some bankroll management stuff you could set up to help avoid losing too much of your roll at a time, but that's not stuff I've ever spent too much time learning about. So hopefully somebody who knows more'll stop in soon to help


I've had to worry a lot about tilt though!! And have gotten a lot of great tips in the forum as a result - as you can imagine, the subject comes up a lot around here ... think we've all been in 'that spot'!!


There's the let it Ride approach that I was told about, but then the cards pretty much kicked me to the curb and stabbed me in the heart, and that just crushed me

Then I made friends with this piece of advice to set in place a stop-loss of 3 buy-ins, and that seems to going okay? I think??

A bunch of us were discussing stop-losses here: Do you have a stop loss?


I really like the stop-loss ... hopefully others will stop in with other tips?


PS Oh no, my internet seems to have gotten patchy again

Hey Sam,

Thanks for your advice, I'll have a look at the link later cheers... My health is coming on thanks, not too far to go now now I hope...

Not sure the 'let it go over your head' approach would work for me either, guess I'm just not that laid back...

What do you generally play?
 
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Sun Apr 14, 2013, 06:27 PM
(#4)
DrDonkin's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 874
For me its simple dealing with tilt and the answer is " learn to enjoy losing " im a MTT player and in MTT's you are going lose a lot more than you win, So brush it off and have a laugh or smile to yourself might sound crazy but it works(but the occasional one gets through and its best to take a break).

Also what helps is using bankroll management if you have 100 buy in's losing 1 buy in wont hurt as much as losing 1 of your 5 buy ins and you can easily brush it off and move on to the next game or add more cash in a ring game and possibly get your money back.

Hope this helps and hope you continue to get well and fit again
 
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Sun Apr 14, 2013, 10:47 PM
(#5)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
riveredme1, great to hear things are looking good!!! Fantastic!!!

Lately I haven't been playing much of anything because my computer broke, and then I've been having internet issues ... in fact I just bubbled out of a SNG because my internet disconnected for about 10 minutes, and everybody stole my blinds ... those thieves

Actually though, I switched to cash games last year after playing STTs for several months - and it was because of tilt due to a prolonged downswing - like I got so tired of feeling like I couldn't win ... and I was break-even during the downswing, so it was just because of the variance.

The funny thing though is that the downswings at the cash tables are just as bad - but since I got all those tips from everybody at about the same time as the switch (eg to read the Jared Tendler book, The Mental Game of Poker, etc), my time at the cash tables has been nice. I've got that stop-loss, and now I know to stop after a really bad beat and just watch videos instead and stuff, and that seems to be going okay.

Also I took a week off during an especially bad downswing. And other people do other things, like Ovalman's said he'll sometimes play on other sites if his games here on Stars are going through a rough patch and stuff? That's something I might consider next time - going to play on Full Tilt for a change, etc.

Thanks drdonkin for mentioning those buy-in guidelines ... yeah, that's what i've heard too - that we should have something like 40-100 buy-ins to play a certain level, so it's not so stressful if we lose 5-10 due to bad beats and stuff?

holdemace486 used to have really bad tilt issues, but now he's totally zen, the transformation's been nothing short of amazing!! Hopefully he'll stop by and be able to offer up more ideas too ...

Poker's so fun when we're winning, but then every once in a while I guess it's our turn to have things not go our way before we can start winning again? Think that's something I'm *still* in the process of getting used to, even though I've been playing for over 2 years now? Work in progress I guess lol


Just some random thoughts - hopefully more people stop in and share their stories

Last edited by TrustySam; Sun Apr 14, 2013 at 10:50 PM..
 
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Sun Apr 14, 2013, 11:43 PM
(#6)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,287
During a particularly bad downswing, I decided I MUST be doing something wrong, so I took 3 days off from playing to review all my big wins and losses, as well as my general game plan for tournaments. I discovered that I was making mostly +EV decisions, and was just having some bad luck. I did also find a couple of leaks in my game, and some hands that I was overplaying. I decided (with some excellent advice from the forums) to just try to continue working according to my game plan.

The downswing continued for a while, but then the "luck" factor swung back in my direction. I then enjoyed an upswing, with a corresponding upswing in my BR. All those premium hands that kept losing now were holding up, as well as some that should have lost. Now I was the "donk" that was sucking out.

I've finally learned to ignore those trash hands that beat me, I just make a note for next time. I like to know when a villain will call my 3-bet with trash, because I know that in the long run I will win more often than not. The times that I lose aren't important, they are just the odds playing out. After all, even AA will lose 20% of the time. Just keep in mind that the odds don't mean that you will win 4 of 5 with aces in a small sample, it can take thousands of hands for the odds to run true.

 
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Mon Apr 15, 2013, 06:07 AM
(#7)
73REX73's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 747
When I lose to a bad beat I just think that players a losing player, playing the way they do and if players did not play that way I would not be able to make a profit in the long run. Jared Tendler author of The Mental Game of Poker calls it injecting logic.
 
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Mon Apr 15, 2013, 07:33 AM
(#8)
riveredme1's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 34
Hi all,

Thanks for your responses.

DrDonkin - you are a far better man/woman than me if you can smile about your losses but I know what you mean. Inevitably you will face some bad beats and other than blowing your stack, like me, what can you really do.

Regarding the bankroll management advice, I'm not sure this will stop me tilting. As I said it wasn't so much the amount I had lost, more so the way I lost it.... I suppose the flip side is - sub consciously I may be thinking about the lack of bankroll and the loss of a big proportion of the BR as well as the way I lost it could be the real cause of my tilt??? Don't know, I guess it's something to think about...

Sam - I read the thread - stop-loss, probs something I should look at doing, once and if I get my BR management sorted... After all if you aren't playing, you can't tilt...

Joy - I think generally I manage to suck up most of my losses quite well, for e.g. if someone beats me with pocket K's when I have pocket A's I can accept it, I don't like it but not many people are laying K's preflop, even when 4Bet so it doesn't usually send me on tilt... It's just when someone really smashes me with something totally mind boggling... After that happens I know my play goes to pot and I would be pretty annoyed looking back at it.. Prior to that though I think I do OK, making decent-ish decisions.

73REX - Again I take what you're saying and if I could play against the same villain long term I guess I may be able to suck it up and think like that.

Again thanks for your replies, appreciate your advice.

Think generally I just lack discipline
 
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Mon Apr 15, 2013, 05:27 PM
(#9)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by riveredme1 View Post
Think generally I just lack discipline
Oh yeah, that's another thing And there's advice around here to help out with that too LOL!! I resisted setting up goals for the longest time, but they do seem to be helping. Sandtrap's got a lot of good stuff in his Time Vault thread for that - think that might be one of the things that's helped me and holdemace mellow out a bit

Sandtrap's guide on how to set goals: Let's Do It: Set your Goals! and win

Best of luck riveredme1!!
 
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Mon Apr 15, 2013, 06:18 PM
(#10)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,363
Quote:
Originally Posted by riveredme1 View Post
Example - I deposited £30 on Friday to get me back into the swing of things and I did pretty well, ending the night with £45 playing 6 max 10nl.
Never mind the tilt problem. You need to exercise some bankroll management. Playing 10NL with a bankroll of $30 is not wise. Even the best players can lose 3 buyins in 50 hands, just down to cooler situations.
With a larger roll (or smaller stakes) each bad beat or suckout won't have a significant effect on your roll, so you'll be less likely to change your playing style (e.g. be more prone to tilt-spew or "playing scared").


Bracelet Winner
 
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Wed Apr 17, 2013, 09:54 AM
(#11)
riveredme1's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 34
Cheers for the link Sam, guess I'm not the only one with bad habits...

I hear what you're saying Arty and I am coming round to your way of thinking, well not just your way but I guess generally anyone that knows anything about being successful at poker...
 

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