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nl5 KTs flush draw turned to TP vs reraise

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nl5 KTs flush draw turned to TP vs reraise - Sun Apr 14, 2013, 08:27 PM
(#1)
Mind_V_Gap's Avatar
Since: Oct 2012
Posts: 34
BronzeStar


Villain is a reg, I have 220 hands w him and he plays 17/13 fcbet 50 AG 4.
Sometimes I get into those spot and I never know how to play. I flop a flush draw and turn in TP by the turn and I get raised frequently.

How do I have to play these kind of hands?

thanks
 
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Mon Apr 15, 2013, 06:29 AM
(#2)
Blake575's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 5
Hi,

First, I'm def no expert but here's my opinion - I hope it helps.

I think you can lead with a higher bet than 0.12 (BB is 0.05) - you're signalling a mediocre hand.

I'd suggest 4 * BB to lead (0.2) - he'll see that as a better hand and might fold if his is mediocre (its probably not great given that he calls 0.l2) - I think your starting hand is good enough to show a little more conviction.

After the flop you still bet quite low (0.18) - it still looks cautious to him I think, he doubts your hand is better and he has position so he calls. On the turn it seems obvious that you got the King you wanted (you bet 0.44) but he knows you're struggling to read him so he gets aggressive. You get sucked in, but he thinks he's ahead of you so he'll take what he can get.

I'd have led with a more aggressive opening bet but probably have checked after flop and folded to any aggressive bet or made a cheap call chasing the flush/straight.
I think you should have folded when he first raised you after the turn - there's a good chance he's ahead and you're out of position.

In general, a lack of conviction made you easy to read and he used his position to intimidate you.

All the best and game on

Blake
 
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Mon Apr 15, 2013, 10:35 AM
(#3)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Hi Mind_V_Gap.

My opinion if I might offer it...

Your play pre flop and OTF is just fine imho.

OTT, I would prefer to check/call.

KT is improvement for you, but it is really not enough given the pot size in relation to stack sizes OTT that I'd want to give the villain a chance to stack through me. By the same token, having not just top pair but also the FD means that even if I check and am bet into, and I AM "crushed" by AK, I have outs. The upshot of my situation is:

- I want to get to the showdown now that my hand has some showdown value.

- If I bet, I am probably folding out most worse hands than my KT held by this "tight" villain.
- If I bet, and I am RAISED, my hand's value is too weak to really call or re-raise, because my kicker is too weak, and my draw has only 1 card left to fill.

- If I CHECK, the villain might be aggro enough to bet into me with less (like AJ)
- If I CHECK, the pot size in relation to the stacks (67c) will not really allow the villain to bet enough to prevent me from getting to the river

So...

To me Mind_V_Gap, it appears that you are taking a hand that now has some showndown value, and turning it into a bluff.

Remember, a bluff is a bet you make in hopes that a better hand folds.

If you have no surety your KT is best (and you shouldn't because a T kicker is hardly bullet proof), and if you have little hope of a bet being called by a hand which your KT beats, then the only valid reason you have to bet OTT is to try getting a BETTER hand to fold. That isn't very likely if your villain has 2 pr.+, or if he stuck for the turn with AK, right?

If you had MISSED the turn altogether, then I can definately see reason to bet; in that spot you'd definately be making an aggressive semi bluff. More importantly though, you'd have a pretty clear idea of what you do with your FD OTT if you are raised, right? See how that differs with the top pair/marginal kicker?

In spots where I have some value in my hand, but I am unsure if I have enough value to get all my chips in, AND if a bet by me could set off a chain of events leading to that decision to play for stacks, I much prefer to keep the pot smaller, so I CAN get to showdown.

Hope it helps.

-JDean
 
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Mon Apr 15, 2013, 02:56 PM
(#4)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,510
(Head Trainer)
Hi Mind,

I agree that preflop and flop are fine, but don't like the turn bet as well. Think about your reason for betting here, is it for value or as a bluff? It's clearly not a bluff as no better hands will fold. But it's not really a good value bet either as it seems pretty hard to get called by worse in the hands of a TAG villain when you bet this turn card big.

With his fold to c-bet only 50% it's clear he's capable of floating flops light occasionally, so I think this is a perfect spot to check-call. This allows us to:

-Get value from any air floats in his range by allowing him to pull the trigger on that plan

-Get a potential 2nd street of value from his showdown value floats, like JT or 99, which he will probably just fold to this big 2nd barrel

-avoid getting raised off our flush draw should we happen to be up against a strong hand like 22 or KJ.

Against a big fish, a station, etc. betting again for pure value is generally ideal, but vs. this villain type I think check-calling maximizes value.


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Mon Apr 15, 2013, 03:46 PM
(#5)
Mind_V_Gap's Avatar
Since: Oct 2012
Posts: 34
BronzeStar
Thank you guys for your analysys. Actully by the turn I was value betting, but the only hand I think villain holds there is KJ. I still beat AJ and many Jx hands that he might turn in bluff.
By calling there I keep him bluffing (since his aggression is very high) but I didnt know by the river if a call is profitable against him.
I like his play against me though, he made me fold maybe the best hand.
So what you guys are telling me is to check call turn and check call river?
 
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Mon Apr 15, 2013, 04:00 PM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,510
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind_V_Gap View Post
So what you guys are telling me is to check call turn and check call river?
Check-call turn, and unimproved you can either check-call river or make a small bet and fold to a raise. If you flush out I'd bet the river.


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Tue Apr 16, 2013, 01:40 AM
(#7)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
Check-call turn, and unimproved you can either check-call river or make a small bet and fold to a raise. If you flush out I'd bet the river.
^^ agree 100%
 

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