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correct shove?

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correct shove? - Thu Apr 18, 2013, 12:16 PM
(#1)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
I had AKo with 10k chips bb was 300 and villain had 20k chips he raises to 2500 so i shoved he called 10k with pocket 4s.

I know for a fact he made the wrong call especially as every time ive shoved i had QQ TT AKs, i had no choice but to shove with them hands but i didnt really need to shove this time but i got this image on the table that when i shoved i had the goods because the y all called and found out then i started getting away with it

So should i be calling a quarter of my stack with AK shoving or folding, i dnt think i would of lasted long if im calling 2.5k to see a flop when they all had big stackes and wernt letting no one see a cheap flop it was a all or nothing table.

I can easily get to the bubble now preety much every time but as soon as them blinds go up its game over for me and when i do get a big stack early in the game (very rare) i just dnt know what to do should i continue playing tight or start playing more hands, it just feels like im playing bingo with these players in tournaments they cant play a hand like a cash game if you cbet a flop where you have TPTK they dont fold they just look for flushes to the river and at the 1st sign of weakness after showing strength on the flop they shove all in on the turn or river

Last edited by mike2198; Thu Apr 18, 2013 at 12:22 PM..
 
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Thu Apr 18, 2013, 01:15 PM
(#2)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
I'd like to see the actual hand history to be able to check out the math precisely, but if villain is opening to more than 8bb with 44 then he sounds like a maniac who is likely to call a shove with any two cards. Normally an oversized open like that represents a monster, which can make for a tricky spot when you have AK.

Best play also depends on the type of tournament. If this was the PSO OL freeroll, then I'm folding pre without much thought. I never want to be getting 33bb in pre-flop with ace high when the league rewards survival, not gambling it up.


Bracelet Winner
 
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Thu Apr 18, 2013, 01:30 PM
(#3)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485


Il have a look now arty see if i can find it look at this though AA cracked for the 3rd time in a row that i had them i couldnt fold that flop he had a small stack these bingo players i keep sucking out its getting ridiculous now

Oh if your wondering why i min re raised him on flop i done to see if he flopped a set or two pair and would of folded a re raise then i realized his small stack and thought what the hell il call anyway

Last edited by mike2198; Thu Apr 18, 2013 at 01:38 PM..
 
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Thu Apr 18, 2013, 01:35 PM
(#4)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485


That was his standard raise btw he was bullying the table
 
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Thu Apr 18, 2013, 04:09 PM
(#5)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
The AA hand is a cooler, but try getting out of the habit of "minraising for information". That's not a valid reason to raise. You should bet for value or as a bluff. The information you get when you raise is a side-effect of betting, not the purpose.

In the pot against the maniac, AK is probably way ahead of his opening range, but because there's so much money in the pot (primarily because of the oversized open), you can't price him out of calling the shove.
Villain only needs 32% equity to make a break even call. You could show him your AK and he could still call your shove with 100% of hands, because he'd win 35% of the time. (Even 72o is a break-even call here). With 44, he'd obviously be in bad shape against an overpair, but if your shoving range was TT+ and AQ+, he's going to win almost 37% of the time and he's getting a great price to do so.

You've really got to learn to deal with the bad beats. Poker is one long session. You can't win every hand. It's a steady grind, with winrates often measured in single digits, as I've said before. "Ridiculous suckouts" are the reason why bad players keep playing. Suckouts make fish happy. Fish make winning players happy. Be pleased that there are guys like this at your table. They are your main source of long-term profit.


Bracelet Winner
 
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Thu Apr 18, 2013, 04:25 PM
(#6)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
I can handle the cash games where my aces get cracked its just when its happening 1 after another or 3 times in a row its annoying the good thing is i dnt tilt im as cool as a cucumber, these tournaments on the other hand are ridiculous i just played the 100k privalage free roll and 4 players were all in every hand 2 of which lasted 20 hands doing this and one managed to get 20k then i got knocked out with TPTK it was either call his all in the flop or fold and call an all in later.

My main problem with tournaments though is surviving the blinds i could last longer in the tourny if i want but im trying to get myself into a situation where i can get a comfortable lead so im not sweating it out with under 10bb because the big stakes call you with anything then just because they can take the loss off 10bb chips
 

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