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What play do YOU make here? The turn, pt. 2

View Poll Results: When Seat 3 moves in, what do we do?
1) Fold, OMG he went all in!!!!! 0 0%
2) CALL 7 50.00%
3) RAISE SMALL, Min raise ($227 to go) to 1.5 times ($270 to go) 3 21.43%
4) RAISE MEDIUM, 1.5 times ($271 to go) to 2 times ($317 to go) 2 14.29%
5) RAISE LARGE, 2 times ($318) to 3 times ($408 to go) 0 0%
6) RAISE HUGE, 3 times ($409 to go) to All in ($617 to go) 1 7.14%
7) BLANK 1 7.14%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

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What play do YOU make here? The turn, pt. 2 - Fri Apr 19, 2013, 01:18 PM
(#1)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
When actions comes to us, we stay within our practiced routine, cut out $90 in chips, and smoothly move them forward.

Seat 10 looks a bit shocked at our bet, sits up straight in his chair, and begins to think for a few seconds. He then leans forward a little bit, and then sits straight up again. Finally, he announces, "I call", and pushes $90 forward.

Seat 3 almost beats Seat 10 into the pot, and announces "All in!" as he sloppily, and quickly shoves his stack forward.

It is $47 back to you to call, and since the all in raise was over 1/2 the required raise amount, betting is still open to you.

(#note: Had we bet anything more than $91, we could have only CALLED the all in by seat 3. Since we bet $90, we left $47 in his stack for a raise. Any raise that is half a required amount or more leaves the betting open. Any raise all in that is LESS than half the required amount would allow only calls. If we raise, we MUST raise a minimum of $90 more than the $137, as that is the true "minimum raise".)


(all stacks, and the pot amount shown, have been adjusted to show the money forward. The amounts in front of each spot is for notation.)

What do we do?

1) Fold, OMG he went all in!!!!!
2) CALL
3) RAISE SMALL, Min raise ($227 to go) to 1.5 times ($270 to go)
4) RAISE MEDIUM, 1.5 times ($271 to go) to 2 times ($317 to go)
5) RAISE LARGE, 2 times ($318) to 3 times ($408 to go)
6) RAISE HUGE, 3 times ($409 to go) to All in ($617 to go)
7) BLANK


For review:
The initial read, and pre flop thread is here: http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...-YOU-make-here
The Flop thread (for review): http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...the-flop-pt.-1
The Turn pt. 1 Thread (for review): http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...-The-turn-pt-1

Last edited by JDean; Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 01:35 PM..
 
Old
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Fri Apr 19, 2013, 02:56 PM
(#2)
Low Rated's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 114
Well I think just about everyone knew by now Seat 3 was ready to get it in. I would have prefered betting action to be closed but since Seat 10 didn't shove over us I think we can assume he won't shove here. Unless he's a maniac. We call Seat 3's raise of course.

Reeeeeealy tempted to click fold for the lols .
 
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Fri Apr 19, 2013, 05:01 PM
(#3)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,286
My initial reaction was to raise big to isolate seat 3, but then I thought that it might be better to raise small. I think a big raise will cause seat 10 to fold, and I'd like to keep him in the pot as I feel we have him beat. It would be nice to separate him from some of his stack before his wife makes him leave.

 
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Fri Apr 19, 2013, 06:55 PM
(#4)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
Sorry folks,

I missed posting in the last part but would have went along with the consensus.

Now it is getting very interesting and really depends if our previous reads are sound. I expected player 3 to shove, he has done so a few times before on the turn with the best hand at that point and was rivered twice I think. We are probably behind player 3 as I had him on a set or straight draw before the turn 45 or 910 are certainly in his range, maybe a small flush.

If that is the case he is a big favorite as it stands but player 10 still has a huge stack behind and we still have draws to the house if player 3 has the straight or a smaller set. I do not see player 10 folding to a bet even a sizeable one if he has a draw; the question is how much to bet because I think checking is losing value here. I want to bet at least half the pot or even slightly more because Milton will call with the worst of it, but I do not want him to fold as our equity in the pot will shrink if he is out of it.

I am torn between in the betting size to take but would err on the larger size. I have some notes done out at home and I really need to look at those before I can fully decide but I am leaning to option 4.

Cheers,

TC
 
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Fri Apr 19, 2013, 08:03 PM
(#5)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
I agree with Joy that given players 10 reaction to our bet he may fold to a big bet but hopefully he reads a small bet as an attempt to isolate player 3 and will want to see a river card.

Grade b


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Sat Apr 20, 2013, 02:45 PM
(#6)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Call and Raise small are tied!

24 to 36 hours until the next post!

Keep responses coming!

:-)
 
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Sun Apr 21, 2013, 08:29 AM
(#7)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
"It is $47 back to you to call, and since the all in raise was over 1/2 the required raise amount, betting is still open to you." I thought that the action will be back on us when he has double our raise like if we bet 90 and he makes it 180???

In The Turn pt1. I elected 90$ as my turn bet because I thought 137-90=47$ which means the action cannot be reopened; If that is not the case, I'd bet enough so that the action cannot be re-opened. What's the rule?

As played here, I'm calling.
 
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Sun Apr 21, 2013, 12:27 PM
(#8)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
I'm making a small raise of 240 here. I want V10 to stay in the hand. Even if we lose to V3, we can hopefully come out ahead by winning against V10. We look to be ahead of him now and we seem to have 10 outs to beat both going to the river. If V10 is chasing a draw with A clubs X for example. We want him to get his money in now while he still thinks he has a chance. If he bricks the river he probably won't put more money in the pot. If he calls, then pot will be getting quite big. If we get a good river, we might be able to win a final bet from him.

Roland GTX
 
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Sun Apr 21, 2013, 01:28 PM
(#9)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoVARTA View Post
"It is $47 back to you to call, and since the all in raise was over 1/2 the required raise amount, betting is still open to you." I thought that the action will be back on us when he has double our raise like if we bet 90 and he makes it 180???

In The Turn pt1. I elected 90$ as my turn bet because I thought 137-90=47$ which means the action cannot be reopened; If that is not the case, I'd bet enough so that the action cannot be re-opened. What's the rule?

As played here, I'm calling.
to be honest, my recollection of the "rule" is not necessarily 100% clear. This is my understanding:

when a person moves all in, any bet that is less than a full minimum raise, but MORE than half the full min raise, leaves the betting open. This means any one at the table is entitled to call the less than min raise, fold, or raise a standard amount; in this case 90$ more (min re raise = $227).

This differs from a "completion raise" (as in stud), where you could "complete" the less than standard sized raise to a full min raise amount, because the fact that the all in raise was MORE than 50% of the required amount means it is "live". Since the INITIAL BET (your 90$) sets the minimum amount one can raise, the minimum one can raise the live all in raise is $90.

I hope that is clear, and would welcome any corrections; it has been a while since I've been in a live room.

-JDean
 
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Sun Apr 21, 2013, 11:16 PM
(#10)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Sorry to be the party pooper, but we can't raise, the half the size rule for reopening the betting is for limit poker only, in no limit it has to be a full minimum raise (or 180 to go in this case) to reopen the betting.

I call.


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Mon Apr 22, 2013, 04:37 AM
(#11)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
That's what I thought too. Great! I'm sticking to my turn bet of 90$ and calling here.
 
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Mon Apr 22, 2013, 08:56 AM
(#12)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,832
(Super-Moderator)
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I'd like to raise, but since I'm not allowed to... I'll call.


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Mon Apr 22, 2013, 10:48 AM
(#13)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Tells you how old I am. :-)

Ok, a call it is. I will get to work on makin g graphics for the next street and posting asap!
 
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Mon Apr 22, 2013, 11:53 AM
(#14)
Croyd93's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
Sorry to be the party pooper, but we can't raise, the half the size rule for reopening the betting is for limit poker only, in no limit it has to be a full minimum raise (or 180 to go in this case) to reopen the betting.

I call.
If stack sizes were different, say the shortstack has between $180-200 would you raise his shove?


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Mon Apr 22, 2013, 07:28 PM
(#15)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Yes, I think so.


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Tue Apr 30, 2013, 08:43 PM
(#16)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,286
(bump)

What happened next, did I somehow miss the thread?? Hope JDean is OK.

 
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Tue Apr 30, 2013, 08:47 PM
(#17)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,832
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He's around, just probably busy.... was in a poker game with him yesterday.

John (JWK24)


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Thu Jun 13, 2013, 12:43 AM
(#18)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
We call, Seat 10 Calls.

Pot = $918

We have $480 in our stack, seat 10 has $880 in his stack.

There is no side pot.

Again...we have 88.

River comes...

5c

We look over at seat 10, and he sits back in his seat, and raises his arms above his head. He also seems to be looking away from the table, and asking under his breath "where is the waitress? She is never around when you want a beer..."

What do you do next?


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Last edited by JDean; Fri Jun 14, 2013 at 08:51 AM..
 

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