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6-max 2NL Zoom - JJ

6-max 2NL Zoom - JJ - Fri Apr 19, 2013, 03:23 PM
fp_boss77's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 490
Is the raise here good ? or a flat call would be better (alhtough I'd have to fold most flops if I don't hit a set).

The short stack calling a cold 3B was weird, I don't think he'd do this with AA or KK, so I put him on 88 through QQ and AK.
And the oher player that called, I've oput him on AK after what I've seen.
So I decided to call the shove on the Turn (if his stack was larger I think I'd have to fold)

Fri Apr 19, 2013, 07:46 PM
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,336
This is a really peculiar spot.
You're 6-handed here, but I presume this was a full ring table. (EDIT: Oh, if it's 6max zoom, then I have no idea why there are 9 seats in the replayer). If so, FR players aren't very good adapting to short-handed play and would typically open in early position with their usual 9-handed range.

Even if it is a 6 max zoom table, I much prefer a flat call, because it's hard for your 3-bet to get called by worse. UTG is most likely opening with 88+/AK/AJs+ or perhaps even tighter. The first flat call is probably a small or medium pair, and I think this makes it an ideal spot to go to also go set-mining, because you're going to see an overcard on the flop over 60% of the time. When the flop is bad for your jacks, you can fold and you've lost the minimum (8c). If you flop a set, then you're likely to more than double up, because there's so much dead money in the pot and overpairs are not going to want to fold with such a low stack to pot ratio. Calling is also likely to induce a call by the blinds, further increasing your potential winnings when you hit your set.

The problem with 3-betting with Jacks versus an early position raise in a full ring game is that you're value-cutting yourself. If villain has QQ+, he's nearly always 4-bet shoving. If you call the 4-bet, you're getting it in bad with about 20% equity, so still need to make a set to win, and if you fold, you've thrown away 32c. If the UTG villain has AQ, TT or 99 (hands you beat) then he's probably folding to your 3-bet.
So all that 3-betting does is manipulate the ranges of villains so that most worse hands fold, and only hands that have you in bad shape continue.

As played, villain 2 in the SB surprisingly cold-calls the 3-bet, UTG folds (which is really surprising!) and the other early position player calls. Now you're seeing a flop and you have no real idea where you're at.
The flop comes Q9x, which is pretty terrible for you. QQ and 99 are definitely part of these villain's ranges, and AQ might also have made a (bad) call. The only hands you beat are TT and 88, but these aren't going to call a c-bet and give you any value.
There's no good way to proceed here. You can't get called by worse, so you'll be value-owned if you make a bet and get called (you'll also be pot-committed with an underpair!), but checking behind allows you to be bluffed on the turn by hands like KJ and TT.

Since 3-betting jacks got you into this bad spot, I think you'll agree that simply flatting pre-flop was the preferred play.

Bracelet Winner

Last edited by ArtySmokesPS; Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 07:49 PM..

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