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10nl Turned Flush facing heavy action

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10nl Turned Flush facing heavy action - Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:48 AM
(#1)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179


No reads or stats (<10 hands)

Any thoughts on how I played it?

Thanks,
bird
 
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Sun Apr 21, 2013, 09:31 AM
(#2)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
I think this is a loose open even for 6 handed in general. You might want to mix these hands in every once in a while if the table is playing tight and for deceptive purposes (that's if anyone is paying attention at 10nl), but I'd rather open one-gapped SC from the BTN instead of MP.

As played, fold turn raise. Opponent called a cbet and raised when a third club hit. He is telling us he has a flush; without reads I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

Calling a raise on the turn OOP will keep us at his mercy on the river and we end up playing a guessing game with a T high flush.
 
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Sun Apr 21, 2013, 08:33 PM
(#3)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Hi birdayy,

When we get to the turn and are raised, I'm not folding personally. Short handed the villain could be raising with quite a few hands that would be legitimate raises that are not beating us, and could also have picked up a variety of semi-bluff opportunities with this particular card. Sure they can have a better flush, but the worse hands that might take this action includes a few worse flushes, all the sets are possible, J9, 64s. Then there's semi-bluffs, possible bluffs, strong 1 pairs overvaluing their hand, etc. Since there are so many river cards that can kill our action from the strong hands, I would prefer to reraise immediately.

Also, no idea of the villain is ranging us obviously, but if they are they will not be putting us on this specific holding. With our preflop raise and 2 barrel, they are figuring us for only a few specific flushes, AcKc, AcQc, KcQc, AcTc... not Tc8c. Also we can have QQ+, a jack, be barreling overs with a single club, etc. Given that range, if they held the single Ac or Kc in their hand it's a nice semi-bluffing spot because the turn raise looks so strong and that removes the majority of our flush combos (in their eyes).

As played, this river card stinks obviously as it improves all the sets and J9, but I'd probably pay him off tbh... there is no way he is thinking we are this strong, so he would certainly bet a hand like Ac9d (that floated the flop) or AA/KK (played funky) for pure value along with any smaller flushes, and it's a nice card to follow through on a failed semi-bluff. Can't fault you for folding to a pot sized bet, and it's probably close either way, but call and make some notes imo.


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Sun Apr 21, 2013, 10:53 PM
(#4)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
Yeah I think folding to the turn raise is way too weak.

As you said Dave, it's really close between calling and folding, but with the board pairing, it's just really gross.

Thanks for both comments.
 
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Mon Apr 22, 2013, 04:54 AM
(#5)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
Hi Dave,

I'm still not convinced that calling the turn will lead a profit.

"all the sets are possible, J9, 64s" Won't you think that 2p+ would raise the flop considering that there are two clubs on the flop and they might be worried that if a 3rd club comes it could kill the action? Also, I think that J9 and 64 might be too loose of a call when there are still 3 players left to act behind and we are basing our decision on assumptions?

Also, I think we are giving too much credit for an unknown on 10nl to be bluffing with an Ac/Kc; and won't you expect an AcJ type of hand to be calling turn instead of raising and getting blown off their TPTK+NFD?
 
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Mon Apr 22, 2013, 10:42 PM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoVARTA View Post
Hi Dave,

I'm still not convinced that calling the turn will lead a profit.
I tend to agree that calling the turn isn't optimal, but I didn't recommend calling on the turn

Quote:
"all the sets are possible, J9, 64s" Won't you think that 2p+ would raise the flop considering that there are two clubs on the flop and they might be worried that if a 3rd club comes it could kill the action?
No, people love to slow play the flop (often incorrectly, but still), so 64 may be more likely to raise as it's more vulnerable, but sets people are fond of slow playing. J9 doesn't improve until the turn.

Quote:
Also, I think that J9 and 64 might be too loose of a call when there are still 3 players left to act behind and we are basing our decision on assumptions?
Indeed they might be, even short handed, but we aren't the villain so we should consider these possible imo.

Quote:
Also, I think we are giving too much credit for an unknown on 10nl to be bluffing with an Ac/Kc; and won't you expect an AcJ type of hand to be calling turn instead of raising and getting blown off their TPTK+NFD?
Sorry, I don't agree... players do bluff at 10nl. A big club is a nice card to semi-bluff too. And AcJx in a short handed pot may well raise us because they think they have the best hand, they don't think about getting reraised and with the nut flush draw to fall back on probably don't care.

I get where you're coming from geo, and you did recommend folding initially rather than opening, but if we do open a hand like T8s and make a holding that is at the top of our range, very strong, and disguised, I don't think it's wise to fold it to a turn raise without extremely compelling evidence the villain has one of the few card combos that actually beat us.


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