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weird hand - Sun Apr 21, 2013, 02:39 PM
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adohole's Avatar
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Sun Apr 21, 2013, 03:26 PM
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TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
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I don't see much value to the 3-bet when 50 bb deep and holding 77. Was player 2 an extremely loose and frequently min-raising? Only in that instance would I 3-bet. With a middle pair and deep another player in the pot improves the your odds of being paid off when the set comes in. Against most EP raisers you're in a way behind / slightly ahead scenario.

Good decisions!
 
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Sun Apr 21, 2013, 03:58 PM
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Shichi-77's Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 607
I would call it preflop, after push I would call if first raiser would fold. fold the turn would be the best I think. He bets without fold equity It shouldn't be bluff , I was surprised to see A5

Last edited by Shichi-77; Sun Apr 21, 2013 at 04:02 PM..
 
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Sun Apr 21, 2013, 10:44 PM
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Hi adohole!

With 77 and min-raise in front of me, since the stacks are deep enough, I'm going to call behind and setmine here. If I did raise, I would need to raise to more than 1k, as the small raise will give odds to the opps to stay with overcards to outdraw me. I'd raise to 1200-1500 here if I did raise. Raising smaller is only going to bloat the pot because it's not going to be enough to make most opps fold and if I want the opps to be in the pot, then I'm taking less risk by flatting and setmining.

The button now shoves and is called by player 2. I'm mucking to the shove after limping behind to setmine, as I'm now not getting the right odds to do so.

By calling the shove, when I see a low flop (one or both opps could easily be on two high cards, especially A/broadway), I absolutely need to bet the flop when it's checked to me. Without doing so, I have no idea whether villain 2 has 2 overs or a pair. Due to this, I'm betting 1/2 pot (2856 chips) on the flop.
If the opp raises, then I can safely muck. If the opp calls, then I'll check the turn and see a free river if they check to me again.

Calling preflop raises then checking the flop, especially when it's checked to me in position, is a play that I do not normally want to make. If I'm willing to call a raise preflop, then I need to be ready to bet ANY flop whether I hit or miss, especially if it's checked to me. By calling pre, I get no information about the opp's hand and if I don't bet the flop, then I have absolutely no clue where I'm at in the hand, did not get value for my hand if it was the best on the flop and have no clue what to do on the turn.

Taking the initiative on the flop when calling the raise preflop will give me the best opportunity to win pots like this, as hands that totally miss (like A5 here) should muck to a flop bet that looks like a value bet that is pricing out any draws that the opps could have. Betting it and the sizing of it (same amount as if I had the nuts) is the key to being able to pick up pots like this.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


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Sun Apr 21, 2013, 11:24 PM
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adohole's Avatar
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heey john

thnax for your reply. on thing i dont understand since the beggining that i play poker thes pots ussualy get checked down because there is an all in player. that the reason i didnt bet. myabe that has changed or im naïve
i still agree didnt play this hand to well


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Sun Apr 21, 2013, 11:32 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
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Hey adohole!

I'm basically never checking down one like this if I think I've got the best hand. Doing so loses me value from the other opp with chips. Whenever I'm in a pot, I want to do whatever I can to try to maximize the amount of chips that I'll be able to gain in a pot.

If this is short handed at the FT or at an exact bubble, I may think about checking it down... not at any other time though. The extra chips I can win more than outweighs knocking someone out of a big tourney (where it don't matter whether they stay or go).

John (JWK24)


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