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Bankroll builder - Sun Apr 28, 2013, 12:09 AM
(#1)
gvozdenkolik's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
Posts: 17
BronzeStar
Hello,
I'm interested in taking part in the Bankroll Builder promotion.
 
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Sun Apr 28, 2013, 06:45 AM
(#2)
royalraise85's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 26,026
(Community Coordinator)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gvozdenkolik View Post
Hello,
I'm interested in taking part in the Bankroll Builder promotion.
Hello,

You are eligible for the Bankroll Builder promotion, good job!

NB: Bookmark this page so that you'll find it easily in the future

First Step

Watch the following video and pay special attention to the tips on retrieving and saving your hand history from PokerStars. This will be important for the rest of your promotional journey.



After wacthing this please play some PLAY MONEY FULL-RING (9-Handed) tables at PokerStars and using the Hand Replayer post a hand here in this thread that you have questions about.

Here is a video on how to use the hand replayer.



Then when you have that done please have a go at the Poker Basic Course and pass the quiz at the end of the course.

So you have 3 steps to do to begin with and when you have all 3 done we will award you with your first bonus.

1) Watch the 'Getting Started' video
2) Post a 'PLAY MONEY' hand here in the Forum using the Hand Replayer
3) Pass the Poker Basic course.

Let us know as soon as you have all 3 steps completed.

Best of Luck!

Raiser


Moderator

Bracelet Winner


 
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Mon Apr 29, 2013, 03:05 AM
(#3)
gvozdenkolik's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
Posts: 17
BronzeStar


So, here is my hand from one of my previous sessions. Table has just disintegrated, previous hand was a massive all-in from six players, so we were just five handed at the moment. I was the bb, held Ks9s, quite a decent hand for my position, hi-jack called, so did the cut-off, button and sb both folded, I checked. Flop was 2s 8s 4d, so I have flopped second nuts flush draw + two over cards. Since there was no pre flop raiser I've decided to raise roughly half a pot to see where I stand, so hi-jack re-raised 2 times my bet, cut-off folded, now it was my turn to act. His re-raise could mean one of the following things: he had some piece of the flop, one pair, two pair, draw, I counted out set, because he would have raised it preflop if he had a pocket pair, or he just had two over cards like I did, with or without flush or straight draw, or he was just playing position on me trying to steal a pot, but then he would, also, have to worry about the cut-off guy who was to act after him, so the waters just didn't cleared out at all. I decided to call, although I was out of the position and I was drawing, counted that my potential 15 outs would still justify the call. The turn was 8c, possibly the most worst card for me, because the board has just paired :-(( I decided to check and the Willain placed a pot sized bet. Well, probably, at that moment I was well behind in a hand, or I thought I was, because I had only one pair with the second best kicker, he could have already had a boat, so I was drawing dead, but decided to go with my read and to continue, although I was only given 2:1 pot odds. The river was 3s, quite an action card, because if he was drawing for some kind of gut shot straight (for instance if he had A5, 56, in his hand, he has just made it, as long as it is not As5s in his hand :-)) ), so I thought it couldn't be better, but still I had to make a decision how much to bet, maybe, still, I was drawing dead to a second best flush, I decided to place a bet of 2/3 of the pot and my opponent mucked.
I would appreciate any input, especially my thaught process and actions on each street.

Last edited by gvozdenkolik; Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 03:44 AM..
 
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Mon Apr 29, 2013, 04:40 AM
(#4)
royalraise85's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 26,026
(Community Coordinator)
Thank you for posting this hand for review and I have asked one of the Hand Analysers to take a look at it for you.

He will do this within the next 24 hours and once it's been analysed I will advise on the next step.

Cheers.


Moderator

Bracelet Winner


 
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Mon Apr 29, 2013, 11:47 AM
(#5)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,819
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Hi gvozdenkolik!

Thanks for taking the time to put your thought process in. The more information that we get about the hands, the better we'll have a full picture of what's happening and can provide a better analysis.

With K9s from the BB and two limpers, I'll gladly see a free flop.

I flop the 2nd nut flush draw with two overs. While at this moment, I may have 15 outs, I tend to discount at least the 9's as outs here, as the board will probably end up with at least one over to the 9 after the other cards are revealed, which means that the 9's probably won't be good. I'm going to check here and see how the opps react. If I did bet, with 2 opps, I'd need to make a 2/3 pot bet here (5), which is my standard value bet for 2 opps on a board with a flush. Betting less than this can price in draws, which can be a tell to the opps that I'm on the spade flush draw and I want to keep my bets standard so that I don't give off tells like this and turn my cards face-up to the opponents.
I then get min-raised by seat 7 and have seat 8 fold. To call here, I need to call 4 chips into a pot that will be 23 (17.4%). I have 9 outs to hit the flush and due to the rule of 4 and 2, each out is worth 2% equity going to the turn, so my 9 outs are worth 18% (if my K outs are good, I have 12 outs for 24%). Since my hand is worth more than the pot equity, I'll call the raise.
One thing that I will NOT do however, is to discount a set here. There are a large number of players that limp small pairs preflop instead of raising them, so with all low cards, a set IS within the opp's range (and they'd want to raise the flop with it to protect their hand against the flush... except that they should raise to between 3X the previous bet and a pot-size raise in order to do so).

The turn pairs the board, which is definitely a scare card for me as the opp can very easily have trip 8's or even a full house or quads. Since the opp has played the hand very passively so far, I'm going to check to them and hope that they make another small bet (like they did preflop and on the flop).
However, now the opp decides to overbet the pot. I now need to see if it's worth calling this bet. I need to call 24 chips into a pot that will be 71 (33.8%). If they have an 8, then I only have my flush outs to win and not all of the 9 flush outs will be good as a 4 would give the opp a full house if they have an 8. Due to the rule of 4 and 2, my now 8 outs are only worth 16% equity.
Since the pot equity to call (33.8%) is more than my hand equity (16%), I need to fold here.

When drawing, I need to have my hand equity worth more than the pot equity, or I expect to lose chips on average, each and every time that I try to draw. Here, if I call, I expect to lose 17.8% of the chips in the pot each and every time. I want to be making plays where I expect to gain chips on average, not ones where I expect to lose chips on average.

For the river, my standard bet in a heads-up situation is 1/2 pot, so I'd make a 1/2 pot value bet on the river.... but I'd have never seen it, as I'd have folded to the turn bet.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Mon Apr 29, 2013, 06:36 PM
(#6)
royalraise85's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 26,026
(Community Coordinator)
Hello,

Please let me know as soon as you pass the Poker Basic quiz and I'll get your first bonus to you

Raiser


Moderator

Bracelet Winner


 
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Tue Apr 30, 2013, 12:24 AM
(#7)
gvozdenkolik's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
Posts: 17
BronzeStar
Poker Basic quiz passed.
 
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Tue Apr 30, 2013, 05:28 AM
(#8)
royalraise85's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 26,026
(Community Coordinator)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gvozdenkolik View Post
Poker Basic quiz passed.
Brilliant!

You've done all 3 tasks and you'll get your first bonus in the next 24 hours, good job!

Step Two

Use your first buy-in to only play the 1/2 cent real money FULL RING tables on PokerStars. Do not play any other type of game other than this. Post one hand that you had difficulty with here in this thread using the hand replayer and we will analyze it for you.

Please watch the following video and answer the question below.



List 3 reasons why a player may want to make a big bet?

Then study the Cash Game course and once your happy have a go at attempting the quiz. Don't rush through the course, there's a lot of content there and the quiz is tricky so spend some time on this.

So you have 3 things to do to earn your next bonus.

1) Play the 1/2 cent Real Money tables and post an interesting hand here in the Forum using the Hand Replayer.
2) Watch the Bet Sizing video and answer the question below it.
3) Study and pass the Cash Game quiz.

Let us know as soon as you have all 3 tasks complete and we will award you with your next buy-in.

Best of Luck!

Raiser


Moderator

Bracelet Winner


 
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Wed May 01, 2013, 03:53 AM
(#9)
gvozdenkolik's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
Posts: 17
BronzeStar
So, let me begin with my answers:

1) Posting an interesting hand from 1/2 cent Real Money tables:



I was sitting in the BB with my pocket nines, Villain in UTG + 1 limped, everybody else folded and action was on my, decided for standard 3xBB raise + 1xBB for a Villain, so I raised for 8 cents and the Villain called. Well, because of his initial limping from an early position I didn't think he had much of a hand, or he was slow playing some monster, which would be quite wrong if he got multiple limpers, or he was expecting that someone would raise the pot and he would come then with a re raise, never the less, I thought I was ahead at the moment, putting him on some weak ace, small pocket pairs,some broadway cards or some kind of connectors, I know quite a wide range :-)). The flop came 8s 8d 6h. Well, that flop could hit him, but after all, at that moment, I wasn't bad either, had two top pair, so I have decided to lead with a pot sized bet!? Well, probably it was my first mistake, because to me, it was not just a c-bet but also a kind of an info bet, to see where I stand in the hand, the Villain called. Well, now, I was thinking, he could have flopped trips already and I was well behind and he was slow playing them counting on my further aggression, or he was drawing to a possible straight if he had some kind of one gap connectors (57, 79, 910), or he may already flopped a full house, and was also slow playing it, but the point is, if you are any kind of decent player, anyone would think you somehow hit that flop, because otherwise you would be drawing under very bad pot odds. The turn card was Ad, well must admit I was quite scare of that card, but after all, if you are going to be scared of every overcard that hits the board then you shouldn't be playing poker after all according to me, I decided to lead again, this time with a half pot sized bet, Villain called. The river card was 4h and even that card could really hit him, not to mention the previous Ace on the turn, because that 4 could complete his straight, or give him full house, any way decided to go with a 1/3 pot sized bet, Villain called and showed As7d. Well, I know I have played this hand really bad in regards to bet sizing and my decisions on each street, but the Villain called my pot sized bet after the flop with three outs with 2:1 pot odds?! Yes, I know that this is my thread and its purpose is to correct my mistakes over the course of a particular hand played, but, I really, really, can not understand such a call... Well, may be, just, may be, I am on a tilt :-)) ...
 
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Wed May 01, 2013, 04:00 AM
(#10)
gvozdenkolik's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
Posts: 17
BronzeStar
So, let me begin with my answers:

2) List 3 reasons why a player may want to make a big bet?

Answer:

To put a lot of pressure on opponents.
To bluff people of decent hands.
To protect against strong draws.
 
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Wed May 01, 2013, 04:02 AM
(#11)
gvozdenkolik's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
Posts: 17
BronzeStar
So, let me begin with my answers:

3) Study and pass the Cash Game quiz.

Cash Game quiz passed!
 
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Wed May 01, 2013, 04:59 AM
(#12)
royalraise85's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 26,026
(Community Coordinator)
Thank you for posting this hand for review and I have asked one of the Hand Analysers to take a look at it for you.

He will do this within the next 24 hours and once it's been analysed I will advise on the next step.

Cheers.


Moderator

Bracelet Winner


 
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Wed May 01, 2013, 05:35 AM
(#13)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,353
Hi gvozdenkolik! I'll take a look at this 99 hand.

I like your analysis. It's great that you're not just thinking about the strength of your own hand; you're also putting villains on a range. This places you at least one level higher than most 2NL players.
Pre-flop is perfect. A standard iso-raise in the SB should get you heads up or take down the pot without a fight. Here the villain calls.
The flop is pretty good for you. You have the weakest overpair, but it's highly unlikely villain has TT or better. If he was getting tricky with a monster pre-flop, he would have limp-reraised. (A common ploy by bad players). Most of the time, he completely missed this board, with two random Broadways or an underpair.
On a dry flop like this with no flush draw, about the only draws are 97 and 75, which aren't commonly played in early position. Villain might have a hand like A6s, so you can get value from that by betting. He might also just randomly float with ace high because he should recognise that you're also likely to have missed the flop. Since the flop was so dry, you don't have to bet so big. I'd go with a little over half pot. If villain has total junk, like Q9 or 43, he's folding whether you bet full pot or half pot.
I'm happy if villain folds, because that means he gives up all his equity (if he has a hand like AT that could suck out) but I don't mind if he calls with hands like that either, because we get value while we're ahead.
Villain calls the PSB and an ace hits on the turn. While at higher stakes and against better players this can be a "scare card", at 2NL you'll often find bad players aren't scared about it all. It's what they were hoping to hit! If you were in position, I'd definitely recommend checking behind here, to keep the pot small and to under-rep your hand. Here, you're out of position, but I think I'd check all the same. If you don't bet the ace, then although it reveals you don't have one, it means you're more likely to get called by worse (with a hand like 33) when you bet the river, because villain will never put you on a bigger pocket pair. By betting the ace, it's hard to get called by worse.
Your bet-size on the turn is problematic too. Betting less than half pot is not ideal, because it doesn't define your hand or help to narrow villain's range. If he calls a small bet, you don't know if he has the ace (so he's beating you) or if he's still calling with a random 6 (which you beat) or if he picked up a flush draw, which has decent odds to call when you bet small. At least he didn't raise, so trips seems very unlikely. (Although passive players often make the mistake or slowplaying, and missing a ton of value).
Since your hand has "showdown value" (SDV) I'd try and get it there cheaply, by checking. If villain bets the turn, I'd probably give it up. As played, villain calls the turn bet and you see the river. Although the 4 is a reasonable card for you (at least it's lower than your pair), it completes one random straight draw, so villain might have sucked out for the cheap price you set.
The problem with betting the river is that it's really hard to get called by worse when you've bet all 3 streets. (Firing 3 barrels with one pair is usually a mistake). I like your sizing here, because it's fine to bet less than half pot on the river when you're trying to get thin value. On earlier streets, you should bet at least half pot. Villain will look you up with a 6 occasionally, but how many 6s are in his range? You'd need him to be on 76s or 65s, and not A6s or pocket sixes. If this villain is bad enough to float the flop with a ragged ace, he's certainly not folding top pair on the river.

On the whole, you didn't play this hand too badly. You didn't go broke for a start! In my blog series on how to beat 2NL, I recommend a very straightforward approach, with a focus on betting for value. With this particular hand, I'd bet about 60% of pot for value on the flop, but I'd usually check the turn, because it's hard to get value from worse hands. If villain bets the ace, I'll probably fold. If the turn goes check-check, then on a safe river like this, you can squeak out a little more value.

Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Arty


Bracelet Winner

Last edited by ArtySmokesPS; Wed May 01, 2013 at 05:38 AM..
 
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Wed May 01, 2013, 05:41 AM
(#14)
royalraise85's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 26,026
(Community Coordinator)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gvozdenkolik View Post
Cash Game quiz passed!
Hello,

Fantastic!

Your second Bankroll Builder bonus is on it's way to you, great job so far.

Watch this video that will help you on the cash game tables



There are three ways in which you can earn your next bonus.

1) Earn 10 VPPs AFTER receiving your 2nd bonus and you will automatically be credited with your 3rd bonus. Let us know if you hit that target
2) If you lose your 2nd bonus at the tables please post the hands where you lost the money with here in this thread. As soon as you post the losing hands we will advise on the next step.
3) If you make a first deposit at PokerStars you will automatically be awarded your remaining bonuses from the Bankroll Builder promotion.

Best of luck to you at the tables and we are here to help you should you have any questions.

Raiser


Moderator

Bracelet Winner


 
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Thu May 02, 2013, 02:48 AM
(#15)
gvozdenkolik's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
Posts: 17
BronzeStar
Earned more than 10 VPPs, but to be quite frank with you, not sure was it before or after my second bankroll installment , cheers!
 
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Thu May 02, 2013, 02:57 AM
(#16)
gvozdenkolik's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
Posts: 17
BronzeStar
Very interesting hand, would like to know if my 4-bet (shove) was correct or not?! Well, I presume it wasn't

 
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Thu May 02, 2013, 04:19 AM
(#17)
gvozdenkolik's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
Posts: 17
BronzeStar
I have just made my first deposit on PS, cheers!
 
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Thu May 02, 2013, 08:53 AM
(#18)
royalraise85's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 26,026
(Community Coordinator)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gvozdenkolik View Post
I have just made my first deposit on PS, cheers!
Thank you for posting this hand for review and I have asked one of the Hand Analysers to take a look at it for you.

He will do this within the next 24 hours and once it's been analysed I will advise on the next step.

It could also take up to 24 hours for your deposit to appear on our system also.

Cheers,

Raiser


Moderator

Bracelet Winner


 
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Thu May 02, 2013, 05:31 PM
(#19)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Quote:
Originally Posted by gvozdenkolik View Post
Very interesting hand, would like to know if my 4-bet (shove) was correct or not?! Well, I presume it wasn't

Hi gvozdenkolik,

This was an interesting hand! There are several elements to take into account here. Firstly, did you have a read on the deep stacked 3-bettor? His stack makes me think he is a solid player, but he might just be lucky. He is in a great spot to do a squeeze play on you. Typically, the original raiser has a real hand (you), but the callers afterward have progressively worse hands. If they had better hands they would normally have 3-bet themselves. This makes doing a 3-bet squeeze profitable.

Without a read, I would assume a standard 3-bet range to be QQ,KK,AA and AK. Against this range you are tying Qs, a cointoss against AK and in big trouble against Ks and As. Moreover, if you go all in as you did, there is so much money in he pot that it is very unlikely the villain will fold. Therefore, foldind is best.

Furthermore, what do you expect all the callers left to act to do? Big pairs like your Qs do best against a single opponent and progressively worse for each extra in the hand. This is another reason to fold.

In general, if you raise from ep and get 3-bet by someone with position on you, I strongly suggest folding QQ and lower and 4-betting with KK an AA. Here you actually have postion on the sb. Calling would be an option, but with so many players left to act this would not be good at all.

Here all the callers are a huge incentive for the villain to 3-bet squeeze. This is something a good player might do with a wider range than I stated above since they expect folds. Without a read, and with the danger of getting multiple callers folding is still the safest.

There is a second way to think about this spot. Why risk your whole stack on a very unclear spot where you are presumably a cointoss, when you can fold and simply wait for a better spot where it is more likely that you have the best hand.

Finally,4-betting all in is definatley better than calling the 3-bet here, but folding would have been best.

I hope this helps!

GL and have fun at the tables!

Roland GTX
 
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Fri May 03, 2013, 05:29 AM
(#20)
royalraise85's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 26,026
(Community Coordinator)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gvozdenkolik View Post
I have just made my first deposit on PS, cheers!
Congratulations!

As you've made you're first deposit we have awarded you with all your Bankroll Builder buy-ins and you have successfully completed the promotion, good job!

You are always welcome to post any troublesome hands in the >>Hand Analysis<< section.

Also it is a good idea to review some of the content on >>Bankroll Management<< at this point.

Keep in touch with us and let us know how your poker journey continues.

Raiser


Moderator

Bracelet Winner


 

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