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How do you get a monster stack

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How do you get a monster stack - Sun May 05, 2013, 07:27 PM
(#1)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
I cant get a big stack in the open skill league i can get upto 200th place with a 15k stack but by then most players have 50k plus and can bluff pots and steal more often.

Im not a nit but im not opening many hands either because theres to many bingo players, i dont know if its even possible with my play style to get a big stack unless im completely lucky yh i can get in the 1000s every time and get in the 100th place often aswell but im wondering how do i get a big stack more often i mean i haven't had a big stack in over 20 games its ridiculous is it just pure luck because every big stack i see have like 40 vpip, i see like 1 in 10 tags with a big stack.
 
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Sun May 05, 2013, 08:00 PM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,814
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Hi Mike!

The only way you get a big stack without playing like a maniac (which you don't want to do), is to get extremely lucky. If you're playing correctly, you won't have a big stack early, but you also won't have the early exits.

99% of the time, having a big stack early means you got the chips from being lucky and will give them back just as quickly....

John (JWK24)

P.S. The bluffers will not be winning big $$ from the end of the month leaderboards... where the real $$ is.


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Mon May 06, 2013, 05:49 AM
(#3)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Ok that makes sense but what do you do when it gets to the stage where you cant even steal blinds because your stacks so small?

I had the best luck ever last night in the open league i was just posting this thread while i just came to my last BB on the BB it was all or nothing i had K9o and got very lucky then i got AKs i pushed all in with 7bb from the cuttoff i ended up with 20k then i had KK for another double up im now sitting on 40k, anyway i get carried away and open AKo for 3bb and big stack donkey to my laft raises to 12k, i get another caller and i know they both like to play bingo with terrible cards so i shove it all in by now im going all or nothing i wanna get on a real big stack and be the bully for once.

They both call my shove and one had Jx and the other was Ax they had weak kickers cant find the hand anyway the guy with the J AKA bingo player hits his J and makes 90k out of the big stack and me.

I could of just called the 12k and folded the flop and kept my 28k which is what il be doing in future i was trying to get a big stack seen as i had been extremely lucky since my last BB hand i decided to get it all in.

So if im playing correctly in the league whats the best way in a cash tournament because there must be some strategy better than waiting for premiums, i play speculative hands when i got a medium stack in levels 1 but if you lose a 3rd of your stack over 10 missed flops i tighten up and wait for a premium hand but then im just breaking even all tourney and end up being a nit all game and when i get something no one gives me any action.

If i was lucky enough to double up early i can easily get involved in more hands but it never happens so am i just unlucky or is there away around this, in a cash game i take control of the hand but in a tourney if you miss the flop im not c betting into 5 people, i don't know i feel like im missing something crucial in tourneys.
 
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Mon May 06, 2013, 06:35 AM
(#4)
TarekGG's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 157
Since this is a freeroll and not a normal MTT I agree on the part that you need a lot of luck, but that's only early. When you get deep, if you are a talented or skilled player you will easily build yourself a stack. You just got to recognize profitable situations. I just played a game yday where I just shoved any ace against a guy with the widest range ever and I went from half the average to three times more. And when we were a 100 players left I was top 6. You need to find what opponents you can abuse in different ways: "pays a lot for draws, calls with any pair, sees a lot of flops but folds after" etc. when you manage to recognize spots like that you wont always need cards.
 
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Mon May 06, 2013, 07:10 AM
(#5)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2198 View Post
So if im playing correctly in the league whats the best way in a cash tournament because there must be some strategy better than waiting for premiums, i play speculative hands when i got a medium stack in levels 1 but if you lose a 3rd of your stack over 10 missed flops i tighten up and wait for a premium hand but then im just breaking even all tourney and end up being a nit all game and when i get something no one gives me any action.
If i was lucky enough to double up early i can easily get involved in more hands but it never happens so am i just unlucky or is there away around this, in a cash game i take control of the hand but in a tourney if you miss the flop im not c betting into 5 people, i don't know i feel like im missing something crucial in tourneys.
There's no "one-size fits all" strategy, because the blind structure (and ITM percentage) will vary from tourney to tourney. In the early stages when blinds are insignificant, it's not a huge mistake to fold everything but premiums, but it's also not a huge mistake to play a few speculative hands and to try and pick up some small pots with a smallball style. Winning at poker requires the ability to adapt to changing conditions. Just as you do in cashgames, you should tighten or loosen your ranges depending on opponent tendencies and stack sizes.
If your aim was to min-cash, then just playing TAG/nit for the whole game is pretty good, but the best tourney players are more LAGgy. Watch Negreanu or Selbst in big field tourneys. They play some real trash hands, but they can run up big stacks with them.
I usually play very tight at the start of STTs and MTTs, and this usually means I'm one of the shortest stacks at about the halfway point, and only start getting more aggressive (stealing lots of blinds) when the average stack size is about 25bb. If I make it to the final table in 45- and 90-mans, it's often the case that the biggest stack is the worst player; he just played a lot of hands and got lucky.
It's impossible to detail the best strategy for each and every tourney, but I'd recommend you go to training sessions with ChewMe1 and Ahar010. Dave's also got some really good videos on tourney strat in his archive too.
e.g. Managing medium to short stack in MTTs.


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Mon May 06, 2013, 07:29 AM
(#6)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Cheers arty il have a look at this vid now.
 
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Mon May 06, 2013, 09:12 AM
(#7)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,814
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Hi Mike!

In the league games, unless you're down to the final table, the word steal really shouldn't even be in your vocabulary... it's a HUGE leak. Waiting for premiums and lasting longer IS how to move up the monthly leaderboard and that's where the real $$ is.

Playing speculative hands is another thing that you do not want to do in the league games if you want to be toward the top at the end of the month. It'll cost too many chips over time, which will lose me league points.

John (JWK24)

P.S. The strategy video that Arty gave you is great for cash MTT's... but really does NOT apply to league games.


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Mon May 06, 2013, 08:42 PM
(#8)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2198 View Post
How do you get a monster stack?
In no particular order:
  1. One pot at a time
  2. Making good decisions
  3. The good side of variance
  4. Having a plan for every hand you enter
  5. Watchful patience
  6. Good observations
  7. Take advantage of your opponent's weaknesses
  8. Stay aware of stacks around you
  9. Quickly adjust to changing dynamics

In other words play good poker. You won't get a monster stack every time, but you'll have your opportunities.

Now the question is: "What are you going to do with it?"

Good decisions.
 
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Tue May 07, 2013, 01:39 AM
(#9)
TarekGG's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 157
I could easily give you a few heads up about how to play since this isn't a freeroll. But if you don't care about the leaderboard at all; just do what everybody else does. Shove any two card until you win about 10k, then start seeing a lot of flops cheap, pocket pairs to setmine, suited aces/kings/queens, connectors, suited connectors. Also, you can try to play LP poker, if folded to(if that's even possible in the freeroll), because alot of people are fit or fold, so just raise cbet and they might fold. If you have good postflop skills you will recognize bad players check and call alot OOP(out of position) with flush draws, so if you hit top pair just shove because they will pay, and since they'll only hit 1/3 times you will be a winner in the long run. Just watch out so you dont shove something like 82 on a 844 board, because eventhough you have top pair there's a big chance the other guy has two overs + flush draw, which makes you an underdog. It's all about playing your opponents, if you pick up AQ and there are two guys who shoves any two card I insta call, since I will beat their range. If you have weak opponents post flop, play them post, if you have guys shoving bad hands pre, call with strong hands. Poker is easy.
 
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Tue May 07, 2013, 10:20 AM
(#11)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Edin those hands played themselves lol that AK all in round 1 isn't really a good idea but fair play if you win and tarek that's just pure bingo play getting in ATC i don't want to play bingo and get lucky i was looking for away to get a big stack skillfully and i don't think that's it lol.
 
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Wed May 08, 2013, 02:48 AM
(#12)
TarekGG's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 157
What you are asking for is impossible. You can't claim to build a stack in a freeroll on skill. A lot will be all-in pre. When I went deep the other day I folded 1st hour with a couple of steals here and there, where I won in postflop. Then I picked up Ax against big stacks which I shoved twice to double up to average. A few hands later the tilty, now middle stack dude just shoved and I had QQ. Rest of the tournament I ran a couple of bluffs, went to showdown with the best of it. But you have to go all-in a lot which isn't skilled, so it is infact impossible. But you can play strategic, and that can help you.

If you are a good player postflop, and you understand table dynamics + opponents tendencies, you can steal and bluff in certain spots. But that's about it, you acquire luck because most of your hands you want to be all-in against those fishy ATC-players.
 
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Wed May 08, 2013, 05:33 AM
(#13)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
I dont do no shoving with pockets until i got past the point where my points dont get affected by losing my stack unless i got AA.

Ive shoved JJ in to weak players knowing for a fact they will call and they turn over A3 and make there 1 pair, i would say my preflop games is very good but not with a short stack and not with players that dont care how big the bets are pre flop.

You cant do fancy 3 bet re steals or steal off a donkey to your left with ATC againt someone with 80 vpip it just dont work you need to play better players for that and have a good table image which is why in a cash game i re steal a ton and they just fold to me but i can do that because i got a deep enough stack.

Its like if you watch some of the training vids they shove 3s from the button into two nit with medium stacks, they can do that because there's a very good chance there folding but if i do that in the open league im gonna be taking an early exit.
 
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Wed May 08, 2013, 09:50 AM
(#14)
TarekGG's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 157
Yes, that's my point, it's a **deleted inappropriate language JWK24**freeroll, so your question doesn't really make sense. If you wanted tips for MTTs I could gladly give you advice, but in a freeroll it's less postflop and more preflop. You can only be strategic to the point where your hand selection beat the other guys range, but that's about it. And with the number of entrants disappearing quickly and big stacks growing quickly you are so far away from avg. that you are almost forced to shove when you get a hand. However, if you care about the leaderboard you shouldn't care about normal poker, that's a mistake. You should only care about a play that makes you get deep in tournaments + consistency + volume, your own strategy that works. Only playing QQ+, clocking, or shoving any ace from LP if folded to.

Last edited by JWK24; Wed May 08, 2013 at 10:20 AM.. Reason: removed inappropriate language - JWK24
 
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Wed May 08, 2013, 10:30 AM
(#15)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Im sorry have i wound you up some how i was just saying what i was doing like not shoving JJ in the early stages, if your making people fold pre flop thats all good but its not working for me they call everything.
 
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Thu May 09, 2013, 01:14 AM
(#16)
TarekGG's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 157
You haven't upset me, just tried to help. Goodluck.
 
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Thu May 09, 2013, 01:31 PM
(#17)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485


This is why i don't try outplaying players preflop or on the flop in the pso open skill league because as your see here this player gets destroyed.

Last edited by mike2198; Thu May 09, 2013 at 01:34 PM..
 
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Thu May 09, 2013, 02:22 PM
(#18)
TarekGG's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 157
Destroyed? It's like 55/45 after the flop =)
 
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Thu May 09, 2013, 03:14 PM
(#19)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
would you call all in with QT? i dont like the play of putting 22 all in on that flop but calling QT is madness.

I just started playing this 25c 90 mans and im card dead ive colour coded all the players on my table all of them was stations except for 1 reg and a tight passive, i tried isolating all the limpers c betting barreling the turn, then the most amazing thing ever happened everyone folded around the table to me on the SB with a short stack and i hold AT donkey to my left hasnt got a clue so i put him all in he calls and flops two pair ok fair enough nothing works you just cant out play them you need good cards to win or a ton of luck.

I know my mtt game aint perfect but i know i should be beating these lot i know one thing i would do better at higher stakes where you could get away with pulling off a few moves here and there but at these stakes its just pure luck becuase you cant outplay any of these players if i went all in every hand for next ten hands il get called even if i folded a 100 hands in a row.
 
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Thu May 09, 2013, 03:27 PM
(#20)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,814
(Super-Moderator)
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You can't bluff a station. If the table is stationy, then the way to beat them is to value bet them to death... play much tighter and be aggressive with ONLY made hands.

John (JWK24)


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