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5NL - Trying to Keep it simple and win

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5NL - Trying to Keep it simple and win - Mon May 06, 2013, 07:08 AM
(#1)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
I'm going to use this thread to post important hands, good and bad, and keep updates to compliment my blog. The blog I posted last night had a graph which although I was happy with it I knew it wasnt perfect. I am far above EV which while nice means I am getting it in bad a bit too often.

I played a short session today because I played almost 3000 hands last night, made 45VPP's and went a long way towards securing some of my goals for the month ie. achieve Chrome Star on the way to getting the 150VPP's needed to secure access to all library videos. I've had this for the last two months and I aim to keep getting it each month from now on while not comprimising my aims of staying in profit.

Here is an updated graph after todays short session:



Here are the two big hands from the short session:



The player is tight, has a big stack, so I decide to go set-mining. If I hit then I stand to take his stack as he will have a very good hand. If I miss then I fold to his cbet. Thankfully it worked out.



I dont pay too much respect to the early position limp, and after getting advice on a similar spot in the hand analysis forum, I seek to isolate the early position limper as he figures to have a small pocket pair or a marginal hand.

I hit top set again and when he donks out I figure he has either hit something or is weak. Its not a soaking wet board but if he has something like 77 then I want to get as much in as I can in case he hits what he needs to outdraw me.

Again, thankfully he had a good hand, but a second best one. With those two hands and some small pot wins/losses I quit for the day.

Good luck everyone.
 
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Mon May 06, 2013, 07:59 AM
(#2)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,355
Good luck with this challenge! I'll be following your progress and givig advice if I think of something appropriate.

Quote:
I am far above EV which while nice means I am getting it in bad a bit too often.
That's not necessarily the case. You'd also be running above EV if hands you go all in with as a favourite hold more often than expected.
e.g. #1 If you had AA vs KK 5 times and won every time, you'd be a fair bit above EV, because you're expected to lose one of those five pots.
e.g. #2 You get all in on the flop with an overpair vs a combo S/F draw. It's a 50/50 flip. If you win, you take 100% of the pot, so - for that one hand - you are way above EV.


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Mon May 06, 2013, 08:28 AM
(#3)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Thanks Arty.

Any advice and critique will be gladly accepted.

I accept your point about getting it in good and still being above EV if it holds 100% of the time rather than 81% of the time etc. but I do know that I have gotten it in bad a few times in the last week. I've got it in bad a few times and hit runner runner to win.

By and large I do get it in good going by my hand histories.
 
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Mon May 06, 2013, 10:07 AM
(#4)
adohole's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,083
BronzeStar
good luck bhoy nice graph


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Tue May 07, 2013, 03:22 PM
(#5)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Horrible game tonight:

Slipped 4 buy-ins on the evening which is really disappointing. Some were just coolers, some were misplayed hands, but I think it is fair to say that my happy period has come to an end. Just in time for me starting this thread.

Here is an updated graph:



The first all-in hand, a cooler against me, we both played it right I think:



I get the money in bad, I suckout when the board pairs on the river, and make a little of my money back temporarily:



I dunno how to sum this hand up really, I had a very strong hand, but to continue on that board villain likely had to have the one better hand. On the turn I kinda value own myself (for a change) but if I call then I feel like I would have to call the river regardless of what came. I could only be happy if it came an Ace or a Nine of spades.



Horrible day at an end on the felts. Feel like a complete donk right now
 
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Tue May 07, 2013, 05:12 PM
(#6)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,355
AA vs KK is all standard. I like the way you played it. Bet-sizing was great apart from the initial 13c, but I guess that's your standard opening size.

With AK, I prefer just flatting the donkbet, even though it's fairly small, unless your notes say he only donks with draws (in which case raising to may him pay extra is correct). You get value-owned if he only donks with sets and two pairs.

With QQ, you definitely value-owned yourself. Villain isn't getting it in with anything less than the nut flush on that turn card. Even if you just call though, he's shoving the river, so I guess you're always going broke there with the 3rd nuts on the turn. (And you can discount the 97s straight flush, based on pre-flop action, so really you have the second nuts effectively).


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Tue May 07, 2013, 05:45 PM
(#7)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokesPS View Post
AA vs KK is all standard. I like the way you played it. Bet-sizing was great apart from the initial 13c, but I guess that's your standard opening size.

With AK, I prefer just flatting the donkbet, even though it's fairly small, unless your notes say he only donks with draws (in which case raising to may him pay extra is correct). You get value-owned if he only donks with sets and two pairs.

With QQ, you definitely value-owned yourself. Villain isn't getting it in with anything less than the nut flush on that turn card. Even if you just call though, he's shoving the river, so I guess you're always going broke there with the 3rd nuts on the turn. (And you can discount the 97s straight flush, based on pre-flop action, so really you have the second nuts effectively).
13c is my normal open raise apart from UTG UTG+1 - when I bump it up a bit to 17c - is there any reason in particular your not keen on it?

I didnt have enough of a sample size on the donk bettor in the AK hand. I dont think I am playing well at the minute, even when I had something like 20 winning sessions in a row, and I didnt give him credit for a hand. I sucked out.

The QQ hand, the guy was loose enough to be doing that with less than an A high flush but it was of course in my head that he could have it. It was also in my head that he could have hit KK/JJ/TT and was playing a set. Rightly or wrongly I was putting the money in either by calling Turn and River.

I think I will probably take a break for a day or two now and regather my thoughts.
 
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Tue May 07, 2013, 05:57 PM
(#8)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,355
I'm actually a fan of smaller pre-flop bets in general (especially since I started playing more tourneys), but I'd always open for at least 3bb in the first 3 seats in cahs games, especially if I have QQ+ and there is a calling station to my left or in the blinds. Since there are so many players that play fit-or-fold on the flop these days, you need to get your value pre-flop. It might only be 2c difference between 15c and 13c, but it all adds up over time, as you'll be seeing a flop often when you raise in early position, and villain will be folding on the flop about half the time.
I tend to go with 2.5bb on the button, but even that will vary according to whether I think the big blind is a tight or loose and whether I have a strong or weak hand. (I like my steals to be cheap when the BB is a nit or shortstack).


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Tue May 07, 2013, 06:40 PM
(#9)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Nice graph how have you managed to flat that red line so well?
 
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Wed May 08, 2013, 01:43 AM
(#10)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2198 View Post
Nice graph how have you managed to flat that red line so well?
I haven't given any thought to my red line at all while playing as I am unconcerned about it. I really think you need to forget about it too.

I care about the green and orange lines. If they move in the right direction, and last night they didn't, then that's what I fret about.
 
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Fri May 10, 2013, 04:25 AM
(#11)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Played another session this morning and grinded a little profit which was nice after the calamity of a night or two ago. Here is an updated graph - not much of a change, and I dont know how to make the picture bigger, but there is a slight uptick at the end of the graph:



Here is a hand early on in the session, I could have got away from it maybe, but the river was an action card. Given the tightness of the player though I should have credited him with having the nuts here. I dont really like the call looking back on it but I called turn looking to hit that card:



Sometimes you see the lorry coming and jump out of the way. I was pretty sure I was behind in the hand, so I folded and watched it play out, and I have to say it gave me a huge boost of confidence for the rest of the session:



I also won a few hands of course.

In playing this session I also hit 750 VPP's for the year so far and earned a stellar award. Considering I couldnt hit that many VPP's in 8 months last year I have really cranked up my play.

I intend stepping up my study - watching a lot of Dave and Gareth's videos - because I need to improve a lot if I ever want to move to 10NL.

Its thanks to PSO that I am not losing huge amounts of money, the coaches here are great, it really is a wonderful asset. Hope that doest sound too gushing.

Last edited by bhoylegend; Fri May 10, 2013 at 06:23 AM..
 
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Sat May 11, 2013, 10:11 AM
(#12)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
 
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Mon May 13, 2013, 05:46 AM
(#13)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Haven't updated in a few days due to horrific results making me feel like **** and pretty depressed about my game. I'll be taking a break to try and refresh m thinking. When I was winning sessions I always thought the next session would be a losing one. Now I have had a few substantial losing sessions I actively fear opening up the tables again. Not a good mind frame.

When I have time tonight I will post my graph.

As from tonight I am going to try and get serious about getting a bit healthier in life. It will be difficult but hearing how the likes of elky and Eugene Katchalov express how much benefit it has for them, including at the poker tables real or virtual, is something of an inspiration.

Tomorrow night I will go through the big pots I have lost recently and post a lot of them for evaluation. I had asked Dave about a sleuth session and will get the more recent hand histories sent to him if he is still amenable to doing a review.

I don't want to give up on this. I have put too much time and effort into improving my game.
 
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Mon May 13, 2013, 07:47 AM
(#14)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,355
Taking a break sounds like a good idea. When variance is kicking you in the teeth, it's really hard to maintain your focus, and a bad luck can quickly lead to bad play if you're not careful. Taking a step back in order to regain your composure and to do some analysis should enable you to go back with more confidence and more determination when you're ready. Don't try and force it. Poker will still be there tomorrow, next week, or next month.


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Mon May 13, 2013, 01:06 PM
(#15)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Ok, here is the graph, bit of a downswing as mentioned earlier.



I have saved a number of hands to the replayer to post in the analysis forums tomorrow evening when I have a bit more time to post and go into detail on them.
 
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Mon May 20, 2013, 02:19 PM
(#16)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Played a few sessions since last week, been keeping them short, trying to play myself back into some kind of form.

Here is the updated graph:



It's moving back in the right direction at the minute.

Just a couple of hands this week - one where I lost relatively little with KK against a calling station. Ironically I was the calling station in the hand but it was still something unusual for me to keep the losses this small with a premium second best hand. The other, some successful set-mining, turning a full-house and getting paid off.



 
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Mon May 20, 2013, 03:12 PM
(#17)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Just thought it would be worth posting this as well - this is my record so far at 5NL. The stats are nitty I think most will agree. I find it comfortable playing like this but I would like to let loose a bit more often I guess.

I'm not changing in the near future though.

 
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Mon May 20, 2013, 03:19 PM
(#18)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,355
EDIT: For some reason, I thought you were playing 6-max. You don't have to loosen up much from your current stats, so can largely discount what I wrote below.

The stats are super-nitty!
If you want to open up your ranges, I'd recommend you start by open-raising on the button more often. You can steal a lot of blinds by opening with anything "playable". Since you're very nitty overall, I think the range you could try opening on the button would be any pair, all Axs, AT+, any two suited Broadways, and KQ.
22+, A2s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KQo is 16% of hands, all of which play very well in position if you happen to get called.


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Last edited by ArtySmokesPS; Mon May 20, 2013 at 03:23 PM..
 
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Mon May 20, 2013, 03:34 PM
(#19)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokesPS View Post
EDIT: For some reason, I thought you were playing 6-max. You don't have to loosen up much from your current stats, so can largely discount what I wrote below.

The stats are super-nitty!
If you want to open up your ranges, I'd recommend you start by open-raising on the button more often. You can steal a lot of blinds by opening with anything "playable". Since you're very nitty overall, I think the range you could try opening on the button would be any pair, all Axs, AT+, any two suited Broadways, and KQ.
22+, A2s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KQo is 16% of hands, all of which play very well in position if you happen to get called.
I think I am opening those hands quite effectively from the button - here are the stats for the button in isolation with those hand ranges. There will be the odd misclick in there but it should be statistically insignificant:



I havent looked yet but I am guessing that I need to be more aggressive in unopened pots from the HJ and CO especially. I probably give too much credence to 3bet stats in my HUD. I generally dont actually use it that much apart from to monitor in real time how many hands I am playing and how tight/loose. So if someone in the blind has a high 3bet % I am likely to not open the pot.
 
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Mon May 20, 2013, 03:50 PM
(#20)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokesPS View Post
EDIT: For some reason, I thought you were playing 6-max. You don't have to loosen up much from your current stats, so can largely discount what I wrote below.
I missed this edit until after I had already replied.

Yeah, I definitely wouldnt suit six max with these stats. I still think I can afford to loosen up a little though. I'll take it slow for the time being - I am still relatively new to cash, and 5NL cash games in particular. So there is method in my tightness.
 

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