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5NL

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5NL - Tue May 07, 2013, 06:19 PM
(#1)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Is there any point in playing 5nl? ive just sat on a a thew of them and i was doing fairly decent making a $ here and there but my gosh is hard to get any action im thinking now your better off building a bankroll at 2nl and not even bothering with 5nl just wait for higher stakes its seems pointless playing better opponents when the pots your win are no better than 2nl.

Ive been card dead pretty much all day and lost $5, $3 at 5nl and $2 at 2nl over 3 hands 2 of which were coolers and the other one was my bad play i had an oesd and flush draw on the flop with two oops in the pot and was just calling down there bets hoping to be able to shove the river, would of got both of there $6 stacks if i hit, luckily enough it only cost me $3 to see the river then it was an easy fold.

Think il keep off 5nl now i wouldnt mind playing better players if im gonna get a nice return but even when i was $2 up on 1 table you just end up getting a set on the flop and you value bet the only donkey on the table and he makes his flush on the river and shoves it all in and you know you have to fold or your be losing your whole stack.

Then other times your make 60c because the regs know to fold when you start raising there cbets but what can i do the board was wet i cant let them see a cheap turn card, then that 60c just goes in 4 3x raises pre flop and if you miss the flop that profit goes quick, basically the average pot size aint big enough to be opening a load of hands and on dry boards these regs just presume you never hit so it pointless cbetting so i got round that one and checked to them they bet i raised 3x they fold its the only way around them a check raise looks much stronger than a cbet and you cant just give away your 15c preflop raise when the pots are so small.

The only time you get a big pot is when two players have 2 pair and above which i had happen twice and my set got rivered by a flush and my straight got rivered by a flush.

So its back to 2nl for me if theres anyone at 5nl making a good profit i would like to now how you managed that one because im pretty sure i played near perfect in the pots i got involved in because the regs avoided me as much as possible well except one who kept floating me and i fixed that problem with the check raise lol.
 
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Wed May 08, 2013, 05:13 AM
(#2)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,359
The 5NL games are somewhat tighter and tougher than the 2NL games, because there are fewer really bad players than at the lower limit, but the game is still beatable, as 5NL regs still have leaks you can exploit.
I think most players' winrates drop by about a third or even a half when they move from 2NL to 5NL, so don't expect it to be plain sailing. (With lower winrates, you'll experience bigger downswings and longer break-even periods, so you need to be able to cope with the expected variance).
While you still have many leaks, you should focus on improving your play at 2NL if you're finding 5NL much tougher.

FWIW, I think you're still way too focused on monetary amounts and actual results. You should think less about the actual money being wagered and instead focus on making correct decisions.


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Wed May 08, 2013, 06:42 AM
(#3)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
your right arty what do you think about 5nl average pot sizes though, opening for 15c just dont pay off for the pot sizes and then you got the 7c worth of blinds every orbit, you could work it out yourself if you open for 3x which is 15c it soon tots up over time with the blinds, obviously if i won those 2 big pots where normally i would of i would of been in profit for yesterday but not enough to come away from 2nl.
 
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Wed May 08, 2013, 07:47 AM
(#4)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,359
I see no reason to alter your pre-flop bet sizes, if that's what you're getting at. I don't even think in terms of dollars and cents, really. I just make it 3bb pre and bet something like 65% of pot on the flop, whether I'm playing 2NL, 10NL or a tourney.


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Wed May 08, 2013, 08:35 AM
(#5)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
No i wasnt getting at that i was just saying the pots are to small for those sizes so i was thinking 5nl needs skipping. 10nl and 25nl the pots look big enough to open 3bb but i havent really looked but im not going to bother because my bankroll is way to small to even consider 10nl

With the pot sizes as small as they are i think you would need to find an extremely bad player or just be hitting every board with monsters with opps on a strong hand as well because 1 big pot dont make up for opening 15% of hands at 3x over a 100 hands.
 
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Wed May 08, 2013, 08:47 AM
(#6)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,359
What do you mean by the "pots are too small"? If you raise to 3bb, the small blind folds and the big blind calls, there will be 7bb in the pot, whether you're playing 2NL, 2000NL or a freeroll tourney.
7bb is a pot worth winning, whatever the stakes. (It's not as important to try and win a 7bb pot as it is to try and win a 100bb pot, but picking up those blinds certainly adds to your stack).


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Wed May 08, 2013, 09:26 AM
(#7)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
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If you ever want to play higher stakes than 5NL successfully, you are going to have to play at 5NL. There is a big gap in skill level between 2NL and 5NL. Skill only increases from there moving up to 10NL and so on. Skipping 5NL would just make the problem worse. If you want to improve as a poker player and try to beat higher limits, then you have every reason to play at 5NL.
 
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Wed May 08, 2013, 09:48 AM
(#8)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
if you look at the pot averages on the lobby 5 nl and 2nl pot sizes are pretty much the same, the only difference is it costs me 6c to see a flop on 2nl and 15c on 5nl.

All im saying is if i put 6c in the pot i get enough return on my big pot wins to go another 100 odd hands more even but at 5nl i put 15c in i win 60c i then waste 7c per orbit and 15c per missed flop, the only way your making money is if 2 players are hitting big hands and you got the best 1.

Am i making sense it costs 15c to make 60c on average pot sizes but i can make that for 6c at 2nl, when two players hit big hands yeah your probably get a full stack and make more money in that hand than 1000 hands at 2nl but then when that happens you start the same cycle again the average pots are to small for 15c opening unless you can take a lot of pots down with no hand at all without seeing the showdown.

Im on about 6 max by the way it probably ent half as bad at full ring because the blinds don't hit as often.
 
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Wed May 08, 2013, 10:04 AM
(#9)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,359
I'm not seeing the same average pot sizes as you when I check the lobby.

In 6-max 5NL, the average pot is about 70c. At 6max 2NL, the average pot is about 40c.

2NL has slightly larger pots on average than 5NL (in terms of bb) and this is presumably because there are more loose players that stack off light. Like I said, your winrate at 5NL will be about 2/3 or a half of your 2NL winrate, but seeing as the buy-in is more than double, you'd still make more money at 5NL.


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Wed May 08, 2013, 10:13 AM
(#10)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
I must be finding some big pots at 2nl then lol, all the bad players come on like 6ish and the pot size is bigger, i can only see 7 tables at 2nl atm aand yes them pot sizes are to small thats why i dont play cash games this early because theres better players playing right now
 
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Wed May 08, 2013, 02:16 PM
(#11)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,359
You can only see 7 tables at 2NL? You must have got some filters set up. Click on "Holdem Ring Game Filter" just above the list of tables and check you're not filtering out a bunch of tables. (or Click the green button to switch the filters off).

As of right now, there are about 200 tables of 5NL 6 max with players on.


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Wed May 08, 2013, 02:28 PM
(#12)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
hmm that's odd ive only filtered out full ring and all currency except $ i don't know how it works for playing on different currency i haven't even considered it yet dunno why.
 

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