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So deep to :(

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So deep to :( - Sat May 11, 2013, 05:28 PM
(#1)
SHOWPLOPPPER's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 105
This sort of thing when this deep(about 30 of us left) surely makes it SO much harder NOT to tilt whatever chipppppies I have left. :O

http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/rep...ash=F051FD2707
 
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Mon May 13, 2013, 07:51 PM
(#2)
SHOWPLOPPPER's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 105
It seemingly never fails and I can surely state that to a high % on any site within any game at any buy in. Don't get me wrong though, it doesn't stop me from playing but it does get expensive with keyboards, mouses and monitors. haha

I could give a lengthy speech on the dynamics and playing styles of what I personally generated and the reasoning to my play within this particular hand but who wants to think they might know some other wanna-be skill/trick/etc. Free think your own conclusions imo.

But I will say...I almost folded but it was this player so I'm 100% glad I didn't.


http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/rep...ash=1BF396F0A7
 
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Mon May 13, 2013, 07:52 PM
(#3)
SHOWPLOPPPER's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 105
Oh btw 1st one I got to 16th and this one I exited at 169th. So close to the penny!!! :P
 
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Mon May 13, 2013, 08:09 PM
(#4)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,857
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In the first hand, way, way too much of a raise preflop. It's a tell on your hand. Standard raises keep opps guessing as to your cards, while betting more with better hands and less with marginal hands turns your cards face-up to an observant opp.

In the 2nd one, the check on the flop gave the opp a +EV play to stay and they hit on the turn... with top 2 pair, I've GOT to bet the flop to give an opp with a draw the wrong odds to stay... or it's MY OWN fault that I lose the hand.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Mon May 13, 2013, 09:25 PM
(#5)
SHOWPLOPPPER's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 105
Yeah John, 1st hand I've played through my mind on a few occasions but figured my raise is within the fairly standard structure imo. 3X with +1 to every limper PLUS the antes added. I could of sat there fiddling around to make it 89999 or 98765 or 109999(which I do that style at times to mix it up). With J's in my pos(not the gr8est of hands/pp's) I'm looking for AQ soooooted or better and some player that can't limp/fold any pocket pair(and OBV any player with soooooted connects like 78C for instance lol). And with the size of the 2 limper stacks I ain't folding to 1 over card(regardless an ace) on a dry flop. Which in turn answers NOT folding to a shove AIPF to either limpers.

If I raise so weak for HUGE action(OBV don't want x2 players here)...I'm still going to find it to hard to fold on flop to a limp bet oop. And if I jam the flop to this players limp bet I believe, more than less, that shows weakness. Tough to say eh? Wish I had control of the RNG so I can put everyone in this exact situation and then we can evaluate = nothing...b/c there is more to it than just Psy 101.

But hey let's get more evaluations as a group and than stick to the best format with all heads together and see if these spots diminish or 'back to the drawing board we go'. Afaiac this loose 'weak'tard station is calling KNOWING 99.9% (s)he's behind in this situation just for the fact on hitting a piece while playing that sad hand this deep and in that pos. Let's say this player put me on exactly pocket 6's = well read and wow to the poker skills presented(or is that 'the luck of the draw'?)

I just chalked it up as the usual with the added notion that maybe this player has never gotten this deep and was so excited with the 64+ suck outs (s)he got to make this moment a reality that so much epinephrine & dopamine gave that feeling of 'just can't lose'. :P

But I do thank you for your insight on this hand John. Maybe this hand was meant for the 76543 raise, which in turn(the flop that came), I can cram it OR raise big enough(pot) to his limp betting oop that it'll really make this player re-think his/her mid pair hit with normal DELETED INAPPROPRIATE LANGUAGE JWK24!!! It's a tough one with just the information I put out here and all the hands and situations I've been in with net poker.






The 2nd hand was played(at flop) to give gr8 odds for this oop betting player to 'try' and catch up b/c not once did I ever put this player on a FD on the flop with betting out UTG this deep. Since player called the min pop I assumed what(s)he could possibly/easily have is AK(as best without trapping) but what's the odds to my chip stack and my min-pop-to-give-gr8-odds-to-op-to-hit-3-outs? AND can you or someone else plz tell me the odds of a runner runner to same suit?(I really need to know this to the T b/c that might be the answer I need to start playing the SM's every week.

Last but not least...what's the odds/% difference for my EV if I check/shove the flop and player still calls to me min popping and shoving oop on the turn to any card? I seriously need major help with this b/c I rather lose if the odds are wayyyyyyyyyyyy better for me at a certain time in the hand then to KNOW what's the diff to next card? Being stacked against myself from my own personal thoughts-turned-to-actions might just help tremendously so I can look at op's like I used to do(aka donk sticks...lucktards etc). haha

So any other help with John's would be greatly appreciated here. I don't want to be the true donk stick when I am thinking(at the time) I am giving this 'donk stick' so much value that the 'odds' of me losing are [[[place answer here]]]???



Thx in advanced,

Clayton

Last edited by JWK24; Mon May 13, 2013 at 09:42 PM.. Reason: deleted unacceptable language JWK24
 
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Mon May 13, 2013, 09:55 PM
(#6)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,857
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If I'm the villain in the 2nd hand and have someone call a preflop raise then check the flop, I'm making a position c-bet here with just about anything... whether I hit or not. If you don't have a monster hand or are chasing, you can't call.

The min-raise on the flop doesn't accomplish anything, as it would need to be a 1/2 pot raise to over 50k to be a meaningful bet... and this bet would be a pot-committing play, so a shove is a much better play than a min-raise. Neither play will make it a negative for the opp to be in the hand, but it will be a much closer play with the shove.

By the time the turn bet gets there, the opp IS priced in with 2nd pair and a flush draw... they can't fold and you can't bet enough to make it a negative play for them to be in the hand.
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In the first hand, I do NOT want to raise weak. I want standard bets, at this blind level, 2.2BB+1BB for each limper. I'll make the same bet with AA, 77, 33, AK, JTs or total air on a bluff. By making the same bets each and every time, nobody has a clue as to what I'm playing.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Tue May 14, 2013, 01:58 AM
(#7)
SHOWPLOPPPER's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 105
Much closer play to what? Same result or a chance player folds? Which I surely don't want him to fold in this hand.

I don't care 1 bit the outcome, at that precise moment, I care to extract as much value(chipppppies to me in this case) to get it all in WITH a call(100% dbl up + blind(s) and antes = 100% value). Since we know how it eventually played out on the river it's sure to suck(big time) but if we put him on every hand that's behind and NOT having 2 H's in hand...and at best...having AK with the KH...what's the true poker math odds this player has to win? Then, what's these so-called poker pot odds that give me more value to bet bigger where it might have this player FOLD on the flop where I might LOSE my full potential value of a Dbl up + blind(s) and antes? And how to calculate that WIHTOUT adding the end result of this sad but true outcome?

In other words...I played to squeak as much chips I can to this player to MAKE SURE player has no ODDS to FOLD and NOW has to MATCH every chip I have on hopes(KNOWING 99.9%[or whatev] I'm way ahead by this time) (s)he has to catch a DREAM card(while possibly THINKING I might have the KH's anyways)!!! What's the true odds for this player to win with my min pop and THEN on the turn with my low stacked shove?

Even say player puts me on AK without the KH. I'd just like to know the odds(7%? 14%?) this player had...even with any hand that is beating him/her on the flop.

The precise maths will tell/teach me if taking down a small(er) pot at/on a certain street is significantly better in the long run...then...I might just change my game a tad and embed this reality and move on to the next HUGE leak/problem.

I hope you can tell me this John or have someone that you may know here that can b/c I did my job in the hand(since I called from SB) and extracted chip 4 chip for 100% value as I wanted to do(played this guy like a muppet as he wasn't trapping me like a puppet imo). So 9/10 times I do this here I win FULL VALUE or is it 8/10? There is no way my play is under 5/10(or even close for that matter). I check/shove or even shove the flop and player actually FOLDS...what's the ratio/% on that you believe? 5/10? No way to tell(ever). We can 'think' we know that answer but since it was played this way, what's the % for me to win the hand on being a head with whatever 2 cards to this players holdings?

Oh and if you don't mind, when I min popped and BEFORE player calls...what's players odds with his holdings to mine(for arguments sake player KNOWS my exact holdings)? Now this right here will help me considerably where I might just buy into having an edge with a poker program that can give me these numbers auto-stylZZZ. Maybe even a HUD might help me.
 
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Tue May 14, 2013, 11:17 AM
(#8)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,857
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Pot equity vs hand equity... which is what should be one of the large determining factors in whether to raise/call/fold.

If my hand equity is worth more than the pot equity, I should call. If the pot equity is more than I need to fold.

Pot equity is the number of chips I need to put into the pot divided by the amount the pot will be after I put the chips in.

Hand equity is the number of outs multiplied by 2% per out per street that I'm guaranteed seeing.

Here is a link to Dave (TheLangolier)'s training section videos. Videos 2, 3, 25, 26, 39-42 should help.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Mon Jun 03, 2013, 11:11 AM
(#9)
SHOWPLOPPPER's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 105
Here is the 1st Open Skill mtt I played this month and seemingly, as usual, with my aces. LOL http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-h...292_311FEC266F Maybe I should of shoved to LESSEN the CHANCE of getting top value with my hand here. What's any1 think about that?

Was about 700 left...so not quite at the 6.25% as it was filled right up...doesn't this player OR don't we all score a teeny weeny better score for top 6.25%? Also, isn't there that sweet deal to get in the Big Bang for 3x top 400 consecutive hits? Villain is from Russia...do they NOT get that promo?

Ended up busting 496th



Back to the drawing board. :P
 
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Mon Jun 03, 2013, 11:35 AM
(#10)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,857
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Hi SHOWPLOPPPER!

Way, way, way too big of a raise preflop (bigtime tell). A standard raise for this blind level is to 2.5BB+1BB for each limper, so I'd raise to 2100... no more, no less. When the opp shoves, I'm snap-calling.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 

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