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Understanding Pokerstove

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Understanding Pokerstove - Mon May 13, 2013, 06:46 PM
(#1)
andrei17731's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 160
So I'm trying to understand how to use the pokerstove calculator.

For Example:

I highlight all pairs and all ATo+ and ATs+ and I get a percentage of 11%. Since there's nine people at a table does this mean that theoretically every round I should get dealt a hand in this range?
 
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Mon May 13, 2013, 06:56 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
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Not necessarily. What it means is that a player with a VPIP of 11 should be playing a hand within that highlighted range.

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Mon May 13, 2013, 07:01 PM
(#3)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
Not necessarily. What it means is that a player with a VPIP of 11 should be playing a hand within that highlighted range.

John (JWK24)
Not necessarily Remember different players have different starting hand requirements. You might b able to rule out hands like ATs in early position while include hands like JTs from late position.

I too don't fully understand how to use Stove properly but you can have an educated guess as to what hands they play by what hands they show. I think this is far more valuable information and you can combine Stove with VPiP to get a more accurate range.
 
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Mon May 13, 2013, 08:15 PM
(#4)
Profess Awe's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,579
All of the above is correct. If you identify any 11.1% range of hands then you can expect to see it one out of nine times or once a round.

What Oval is saying is that someone who plays on average one hand a round might not be playing the 11% of hands you identified. Eg If I was only playing one hand per nine I wouldn't be playing 22 or ATo ...
 
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Tue May 14, 2013, 10:00 AM
(#5)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Everyone's right!

PokerStove ranges are an approximation, if you plug in a % it gives you it's approximation of that %, it may not be the exact range for a villain though.

For example, let's say you think a villain is open shoving his 10bb stack from the button with roughly 25% of starting hands. Open up stove and put in 25%, and you'll see it gives you a range of 25.2% that looks like this:

66+,A2s+,K6s+,Q8s+,J8s+,T8s+,A7o+,K9o+,QTo+,JTo

Now, I don't particularly like that range for this hypothetical villain, so I will start adjusting it for the player and situation as I see it. Perhaps I feel like they will be shoving any ace and any pair here, so I'll add A2o-A6o and 22-55. I don't think they shove suited 2-gappers below broadways though, so I'll remove Q8s - T8s. They also view K-rag as weak and don't shove it so I'll take out the weaker kings. And I have observed this player in similar situations only min-raise AA and KK to try and get action, so I'll choose to take that out of their range to shove as well.

Now that I'm satisfied I can use this range assignment to evaluate against (it turns out to be 27.9% and look like this:
QQ-22,A2s+,K9s+,Q9s+,J9s+,T9s,A2o+,KTo+,QTo+,JTo)

Sometimes the default range for a % is fine to use for rough estimates, that's what we often do, but if we see obvious tweeks to that default range for a given situation then making the adjustments gives us a clearer picture.

Hope this helps.

Dave


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Tue May 14, 2013, 10:06 AM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Profess Awe View Post
If you identify any 11.1% range of hands then you can expect to see it one out of nine times or once a round.
To be clear on this, it's important to remember this would be an average over the long term, so to use the word expect can be misleading if one doesn't understand this as players shouldn't be looking for this to happen specifically once a round. For example you could go 4 orbits without seeing a hand anywhere near this range, then get dealt 5 of them in the next 7 hands.


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Tue May 14, 2013, 10:25 AM
(#7)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrei17731 View Post
I highlight all pairs and all ATo+ and ATs+ and I get a percentage of 11%. Since there's nine people at a table does this mean that theoretically every round I should get dealt a hand in this range?
When you select any range (or exact hole cards) in Stove/Equilab, the number at the bottom just tells you the propotion of the 1326 possible starting hand combinations that the range represents. If the hands you select add up to 11% of the total, then you have an 11% chance of you getting dealt one of them on the next hand. On average, you'll get one of the hands in that 11% range during the next orbit, but I'm sure that you've had periods of being card dead, or you've gone on a rush and had aces back to back to back with kings etc.
With 1326 different combos available, the variance from what is "expected" can be pretty extreme. Indeed, it can often take about 30,000 hands in total before the distribution of combos that you actually get dealt is close to the long-term expectation. This is one of the reasons why luck plays a major part in tournament success. If you're only being dealt about 150 hands in total, being card dead will make it very hard to win. For example, you're "expected" to be dealt a pocket pair once in every 17 hands on average, but I've certainly had streaks in which I've gone 75 hands or so without being dealt a pair.


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