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L10 micro: underplaying 89s?

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L10 micro: underplaying 89s? - Thu May 23, 2013, 02:15 AM
(#1)
SpiritFingrs's Avatar
Since: May 2013
Posts: 7
i'm a hacker - just starting to get a grip on the basics

i sure make plenty of mistakes! Know i've made a bunch here, but not clear to me what they are.

Background: i'd only seem maybe 6 hands. V10 had been throwing his rocks on the table without fail every opportunity. V6 had only just joined. The rest were pretty tight and slow, but determined if on a pair.... range for these guys maybe about QJo.




Also relevant - i'm fighting over-tight beginner-iteris. Sat down at this table trying to loosen up. Shortly after that hand^ V6 knocks me out after i shoved him all the way through with A7s (out of my normal range)....i hit a 7 on the flop, he got a gut draw on the river with a hand every bit as bad as the one he played here

Anyway, i feel ok about the A7s, but for some reason how i played the 89s has left me disappointed. Not sure why, thinking i underplayed by not making the last bet on the river? and perhaps it was a mistake too folding at the showdown?

And the reason i mention the A7s hand, i'm wondering if i'm still too timid. A7s against monkey should be WELL within range, right?
Seems though when i try and loosen up and be more aggressive, i find myself on the floor pretty quick!

Thanks for reading. Thoughts very welcome.
 
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Thu May 23, 2013, 05:36 AM
(#2)
adohole's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,083
BronzeStar
heey spirit, im just startig at lhe aswell.
i like your flat pre flop, but i would have just called posrt flop you only have 8 outs to win and of those 8 there are 2 you dont really want to see. so 6 outs is about 24%. you are getting the odds to cal but i would raise it. just call. turn is a good call in my opnnion and the river is a definit fold.
this is just my opnnion hoe it helps and best of luck in the games


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Thu May 23, 2013, 10:27 AM
(#3)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,479
(Head Trainer)
Hi Spirit,

I think your play is fine here. I like calling preflop on the button with 98s in a multi-way pot. Flop raise can be ok if it might buy us a free turn card, but I think that is not very likely here and it would also confront V3 with having to call 3 bets cold which makes it harder for him to continue and reduces our price to draw. So I'd prefer to call here on the flop.

Turn call is correct, river fold obviously... not sure what you mean by being disappointed by not making the last bet here, you have 9 high and can't possibly win, putting another bet in is just lighting that money on fire.

Some good notes for in game, V4 led into the field with a set on the flop rather than check to the raiser, but then did slow down when it came back to him 3 bets (he should have capped it imo). But he did lead the turn not risking a free card. So when drawing the free card play won't work with this guy. And V6 is a mega-drooler, posting UTG+1 to enter the game, calling a raise with 95o, and then going bananas with a gut shot. Given this I would say you played A7 on a 7 high flop against him just fine putting in multiple bets.


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Thu May 23, 2013, 01:24 PM
(#4)
HokyPokyToo's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,901
Hi SpiritFingrs,

Welcome to PokerSchoolOnline!

Here is a link to help familiarize you with all the features and services available at PSO. Feel free to look around the forum and post any comments or questions you may have.



You are invited to join the PokerSchoolOnline Community Home Games Club. Information on how to join the club may be found HERE. Hope to see you there!
Good luck at the tables!

Joss


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Thu May 23, 2013, 08:45 PM
(#5)
SpiritFingrs's Avatar
Since: May 2013
Posts: 7
hi ado!

That definitely helps, thanks. Still not 100% sure why this hand was (is) so significant.... head still wrapped around it.

One thing is the odds - & yes agree with you Ado - on the flop i was thinking open str8 draw (which i just never get btw), so yeah around 25% ....then on turn i was thinking open str8 + flush draw so that 2nd club on the turn kept me at about 25% (right?). Also some slight hope that a 8 or 9 on the river would sneak me through.

This^ a my usual TAG kind of thinking....long term & not situational if that makes sense. Like i could build a robot to play for me. But then, if i open up to suited connectors (e.g. more than just limping it in from the blind), i feel like i have to change my play.....pumping the pot on the flop without a made hand, so that when it does come through, i can recoup all the failed attempts. Hearing myself say that sounds wrong tho.....maybe i should be limping until the draw card comes down?

But then reality of that^ is by now u've usually got me down as a TAG. Limping along then suddenly raising (or leading) after the draw card comes out usually = everyone folds, or at best calls. Its a strategy, but so dormouse!! You ever been the tourney guy who only lurks for the monster to go all in pre flop? So tedious and smelly (but works ok).

lol sorry life story going on! Now i've slept on it, pretty sure the disappointment i felt was:
1. Because i was not able to fully commit to the LAG plan, even though that was my intention
2. In my heart i knew there was a lot of shit going on that my head was unaware of. (Man, poker is like turtles all the way down!)

EG for that second one^...i've woken today thinking that my aggressive play probably had something to do with the A7s hand that came shortly after (though who knows? from memory he had 93o ). Hitting the flop hard cost me money, but probably got me in with the monkeys....leading up to an 2X advantageous position shortly after (with a little pre-flop aggression) = A7s v isolated 93o

If that is true^ (and it doesn't seem outrageous), then the calling pre-flop, capping on the flop, calling on the turn and folding on the river was perfect to lead uo to that. Problem was i felt like i'd abandoned my LAG-at-all-cost plan (its tough to break out of dormouse).

Btw all of this^ came from a shop experience the other day....i dropped 20c on the floor and couldn't be ****ed picking it up. Made me think that probably professional gamblers would be thinking the same thing but with $50 notes! Since, i've been trying to have zero emotional investment in my bankroll. Hard!

Sorry about the essay! Its a real help to talk it through.

Best of luck to you too mate. I definitely owe you a beer
 
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Thu May 23, 2013, 09:28 PM
(#6)
SpiritFingrs's Avatar
Since: May 2013
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
Hi Spirit,

I think your play is fine here. I like calling preflop on the button with 98s in a multi-way pot. Flop raise can be ok if it might buy us a free turn card, but I think that is not very likely here and it would also confront V3 with having to call 3 bets cold which makes it harder for him to continue and reduces our price to draw. So I'd prefer to call here on the flop.

Turn call is correct, river fold obviously... not sure what you mean by being disappointed by not making the last bet here, you have 9 high and can't possibly win, putting another bet in is just lighting that money on fire.

Some good notes for in game, V4 led into the field with a set on the flop rather than check to the raiser, but then did slow down when it came back to him 3 bets (he should have capped it imo). But he did lead the turn not risking a free card. So when drawing the free card play won't work with this guy. And V6 is a mega-drooler, posting UTG+1 to enter the game, calling a raise with 95o, and then going bananas with a gut shot. Given this I would say you played A7 on a 7 high flop against him just fine putting in multiple bets.

Thanks TheLang!

That flop raise for a free turn....seems pretty common. Do you look for it (like a c bet)? Do you have a strategy?

Yes I would normally call it on the flop. Jamming it was a defining moment for sure. Bad probability, but perhaps with enough little side benefits, it turned into good probability? I just don't know.

I do know though, it is much more fun to play! I had a great night and later on the best PSO tourney ever. Played the best i've ever played by far. By a million miles. I didn't get anywhere, but it was aggressive and in my eyes flawless. So happy. The only down side was everyone hated me. Like a LOT. I guess that is just a reality to deal with.

Yes disappointment because i was so determined to light my money! Had to go to extremes to change my playing style. It settled into just playing a wider range more aggressively. So much fun(!)...opens up a new level.... but I can see a lot of potential problems for someone with my knowledge.

Yes! He should have capped it. Made me think he had Q... him going on to lead made me think he had QJ (2 pair) btw.

Thanks for your input TheLang. Reckon this is all me going through a bit of a head-change. So super stoked that you're reading this! Any thoughts always very welcome.
 
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Thu May 23, 2013, 09:38 PM
(#7)
SpiritFingrs's Avatar
Since: May 2013
Posts: 7
Hi Joss!

Thankyou i'm on the waiting list already! Hope to see you there too.

I've been looking at the poker school courses and they are great

NOT a gramma ****, but have noticed a mistake in one of the questions in 1st big quiz....it's the less vs. fewer thing. Honestly, this is of no concern to me AT ALL, but am happy to go back and find it if it helps you. Might get you some Christmas-bonus brownie points??

I know i love those

Hey i'd like to pour over the tourney i played last night.....is there a way to get a whole tourney replay?
 

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