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2c NL - Pocket 6s Setmine turn to bluff - good idea or not?

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2c NL - Pocket 6s Setmine turn to bluff - good idea or not? - Thu May 23, 2013, 11:37 PM
(#1)
Christxof's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 256
Had this hand at a cash table recently.



Villain 5 was quite tight - this was the first hand I had seen him play. Villains 1 and 2 were quite fishy, who posted the blinds before time when they joined the table, limped a lot, and would call preflop raises if they had already limped. I had a bit of history with villain 2.

My original plan was to setmine with my 6s, due to the excellent implied odds. When I missed, however, I noticed two things:
1. The original raiser didn't c-bet, meaning he likely had AK or AQ and missed.
2. Villain 2 bet quite a small amount - even though he was loose and passive preflop, he liked to take opportunities to bet post-flop, including check-raising with top-pair + a draw. This, coupled with the small bet, made me think he was weak.
Due to these factors, I chose to flat call in an attempt to outplay villain 2, who I believed did not have a ten due to his weak bet. I didn't account for villain 1 to call, though.

Turn is a diamond, which completes a flush. My intent was to bluff as if I had reached the flush, but I checked here due to 1. Being out of position and 2. Checking to see if the villains were actually weak, as I suspected.

My suspicions were confirmed when they checked round, so I took the opportunity to bluff the river.

Was this a good bluff, or is there something wrong with my line of thinking?
 
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Fri May 24, 2013, 07:11 AM
(#2)
TommyGun369's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christxof View Post
Had this hand at a cash table recently.
Villains 1 and 2 were quite fishy
This quote is enough to answer your question. You are trying to bluff 2 fishy players who show interest in a pot at 2NL? I am 99% sure this is not a profitable play in the long run. However, this is not really a bluff as I would not be surprised to see either of them call with 2,3,44 or 55. It is almost a value bet Not the best value bet in the world but still I would rarely expect a fish at 2NL to fold anything better than what you have. Your best hope is that they fold a 7 but because they both put money in OTF there are very few 7s in their range. I also feel that K OTR is a bad card to bluff on in general at 2NL because overcards do not scare fish and especially villain 1 can have a lot of Ks in his range - I suspect a fish is always check calling with overcards OTF and since he folded this time you were probably lucky that he had a hand like QJ,AQ,AJ or some other random hand and not KQ,KJ or AK.

We are not trying to bluff or call down vs fish. We value bet them!

Tommy

Last edited by TommyGun369; Fri May 24, 2013 at 07:21 AM..
 
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Fri May 24, 2013, 10:32 AM
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ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
I think TG pretty much nailed this. There's really not a lot of scope for bluffing in multiway pots at 2NL. You are just going to get looked up way too often.
The plan with a small pocket pair should be simply to try and flop a set (or the top end of an open-ended straight draw) and to get out if you miss.
If I was going to try winning this pot, I'd actually lead out on the flop. This flop is pretty ragged. The PFR is likely to have missed, and if you lead out you can rep a 10 or a flush draw, which means you can barrel quite a lot of turn cards (all diamonds, all cards lower than 10, any 6 when you hit your set). The problem with this plan is that if you get called on the flop (especially by two players) it's very likely that one of them actually has the flush draw or top pair, so you won't have the fold equity required.

As played, when the turn is checked around, it seems that villain 2 just has a ten and is worried about the flush, but I think he will still call most river bets. Since hands like KT are in his range, the river might improve his hand. The cutoff might have checked the turn with a flush (looking to check-raise) and he's certainly not folding to a river bet with that hand.

If you were heads up on the turn, then there's more scope for a river bluff, but when you lead into two players, I don't think you have a high chance of success. 2NL stations aren't good enough to work out what you are repping. They'll just look at the strength of their own hand. If they like their Tx (and definitely Kx), they are definitely calling.

Overall, I think the best advice is to just don't get fancy in multiway pots. There's no need to take risky high variance moves, when you can just play straightforwardly for value.


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