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50NL 6-max: JJ in 4-bet pot OOP

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50NL 6-max: JJ in 4-bet pot OOP - Tue May 28, 2013, 05:42 PM
(#1)
f1nlaion's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 64
Hi all,

Opponent: 37/29, 15% 3bet, 20% F3Bet. (only 130 hands)

I open for my standard 3x on the cutoff and the button 3-bets me fairly small. My reaction to that, is pretty straightforward against this opponent, just 4-bet with the intention of getting stacks in preflop.
However, he just calls my 4-bet. That is a spot that don't happen all that often and I have trouble figuring out what the optimal post-flop approach would be.

The flop comes a nasty-looking Ahigh board. I decide to c-bet as I would with all the AK, AQ in my range there. He calls my c-bet and then I just check/fold the turn.



His range on the flop after calling my c-bet should consist heavily of As and thus my play cannot be that bad.

However how should one approach such spots in general in 4-bet pots OOP against a loose opponent(with so low F3bet I would expect that he peels pretty loosely small 4-bets as well) like that:

i) 4-bet pre with big pocket pairs JJ-KK. Flop comes Ahigh.

do we c-bet to fold out his worse pocket pairs that might have peeled pre-flop? if we don't we open the door to getting bluffed by those exact pocket pairs.

ii) 4-bet pre with AQ, AK. Flop comes low cards.

the same question. do we fire to fold out his broadways or just check-fold?
 
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Wed May 29, 2013, 04:34 AM
(#2)
almigthybald's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 94
Hi f1n,

tough spot, I think you played it well. I often just call the threebet here with JJ since I am a bit nitty when it comes to staking off and we have few hands on the opponent but I think 4bet get it in is fine here.

I would have chosen a bit smaller betsizing though. I think your 4-bet is a bit big, I would have went with 8.50 and on such a super dry board in a 4 bet pot you can even size the c-bet a little bit smaller like 53% instead of your 63%. The advantage here would have been to not make the turn laydown so painful :-) and you would not really have any real disadvantages with the smaller sizing I in these spots imo.

The variation the you mentionend with A high on low cards flop depends on the flop texture imo, if it is coordinated like 689 two tone I often check fold and if its dry I often c-bet with my 6 outs over draw in order to keep the initiative. I dont go into the threebarrel mode in order to get him of overpairs though, its pretty situation dependend all in all.

Greetings SirSixty
 
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Wed May 29, 2013, 05:15 PM
(#3)
GarethC23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,273
Hey

I don't mind four-betting here or calling. I think both have their place. We aren't going to be getting all the money in preflop with great equity, but our hand is strong enough to do it. Also, if he calls four bets a decent portion in position then I think the value of our four-bet goes way up.

On this flop I think our options are to check-call or to check-fold.

The flop is very dry and disconnected. If villain has exactly KQ they have 6 outs when behind. If they are otherwise behind, they have less. So I think we have no need to concern ourself with protection. This villain looks like the type who could hand read our check-call and decide to fire multiple barrels with a well balanced range to get us to fold our jacks. So for that reason I would go with check-fold.

Sure, it sounds weak-tight, but what are we to do in this spot? How wide do you think he is calling the four bet and with what hands? And also, as you point out, you have AQ/AK in your range, plus any AX four-bet bluffs, so its not as if you can never fight on this board. JJ is just the worst hand to do it with in your range.

But maybe I'm not following some points, like this one

Quote:
His range on the flop after calling my c-bet should consist heavily of As and thus my play cannot be that bad.
 
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Wed May 29, 2013, 06:35 PM
(#4)
f1nlaion's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 64
I am only saying that the way I played it on the flop(c-bet), we make certain that his range consists of top pairs and we are not getting bluffed out of the pot. While if I had checked, he could have taken a stab at the pot with KQs,KJs.(sorry I just expressed myself wrongly in the first post)

Point taken though c/f > c/c > c-bet

Thnx Gareth!
 
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Wed May 29, 2013, 06:56 PM
(#5)
GarethC23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,273
yeah I think c-betting certainly prevents us getting bluffed, so we def agree there.

I just feel that also we will be putting in money badly too often and that we could put in money better with a check-call, though this will likely lead to getting bluffed out on later streets. So I like check-folding v this villain
 

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