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5NL 6-Max: TP on dry board vs big bet OTT

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5NL 6-Max: TP on dry board vs big bet OTT - Thu May 30, 2013, 11:50 PM
(#1)
Low Rated's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 114
Hello.



Not much info on villain but the only 2 pots I saw him play were big and played aggressively.

Tried to go in behind fishy UTG villain for cheap. 3-bet from BB was small and I had position so I looked him up.

Dry flop. Didn't want to fold out his weaker range nor did I want to grow the pot too much w/ just TP so I simply called.

My plan was to take it to the river if he x OTT and bluff catch/value bet.

OTT he bets big. At this point I don't think he is going to x OTR and I dont want a tough decision with what could be the best hand so I make a move. I don't think I could have continued when he 3-bets.

Looking back Im wondering if the line I took was best... thanks for reading.

Last edited by Low Rated; Fri May 31, 2013 at 01:41 AM.. Reason: Stuff ~
 
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Fri May 31, 2013, 06:59 AM
(#2)
blast126's Avatar
Since: May 2013
Posts: 204
BronzeStar
On this scenario most of the time a pair isn't enough. I think your decision was good.
 
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Fri May 31, 2013, 10:07 AM
(#3)
TommyGun369's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 340
Hi,

Just a few questions for you:
1) Why did you minraise the turn?
3) What do you expect him to do when you minraise?
2) What do you think the villain's range is to make a big 2nd barrel?

In general I think a raise at any point in this hand is a bad idea because it does not accomplish anything. If he was bluffing he would just fold or he could potentially make a bluff 3b to which you folded... You either believe you are beat and fold OTT or you think there is a decent chance you have the best hand in which case you should just call down. If you think he is bluffing let him fire with air.

However, to me it does not look like he is bluffing. His line is consistent with AK or AA (I do not think he has KK since with such a strong hand people do not tend to play so fast at 5NL and you have a blocker for that hand too). His min 3b preflop followed by 2 big bets also screams of a big hand which wanted you to call preflop. Do not forget that this is 5NL, there is much less value in calling down than there is in value betting yourself. My advice is to just fold the hand OTT and find a better spot to earn some easy money
 
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Fri May 31, 2013, 12:28 PM
(#4)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Hi Low Rated,

Fold preflop at both junctures imo. KJo plays poorly even in position to an UTG raise, and especially to a 3b.

Flop call is ok to float and see what happens on the turn, although the big bet sizing by the villain is concerning... thus far in the hand he has shown massive strength, enough so that folding on the flop immediately isn't bad imo.

Turn when he barrels big again, I'm an folding KJ here 100% of the time. Without definitive reads I would be giving him credit for all the strength his very strong line has indicated... AK+. Not sure what your process was for ranging him as you didn't range him in your post, just stated you "could have the best hand" on the turn. This line is very strong however, it is not the line of someone with QQ or AQ on this board texture, which is why I say without history or reads I think we are beat (we are certainly beat by his entire value range, and there's no reason to think he's stubbornly bluffing off here).


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Fri May 31, 2013, 02:55 PM
(#5)
Low Rated's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 114
Quote:
Just a few questions for you:
1) Why did you minraise the turn?
3) What do you expect him to do when you minraise?
2) What do you think the villain's range is to make a big 2nd barrel?
I made a minraise there trying to end the hand at that point, the bet was really big and I believed that a minraise would be enough to fold out bluffs and weaker made hands. Through this I would expect raises/shoves from monster hands, calls from marginal showdown hands like Kx or PPs followed by checks OTR.

I have to admit here that I definitely did a terrible job narrowing the villains range as the hand progressed, looking back the only hands that would fire 2 barrels in such a big pot on that board were monsters or a bluff. With that in mind the strong line he took should have lead to an easy fold. As you said I probably should have folded and gathered more info rather that play a big pot with a marginal hand vs an unknown.

Quote:
Turn when he barrels big again, I'm an folding KJ here 100% of the time. Without definitive reads I would be giving him credit for all the strength his very strong line has indicated... AK+. Not sure what your process was for ranging him as you didn't range him in your post, just stated you "could have the best hand" on the turn. This line is very strong however, it is not the line of someone with QQ or AQ on this board texture, which is why I say without history or reads I think we are beat (we are certainly beat by his entire value range, and there's no reason to think he's stubbornly bluffing off here).
Yeah it really should not have been such an expensive fold, not one of my brighter moments . I really should have given due respect to the line he took and waited for a better spot to get into a big pot with more info.

Thanks for the analysis guys, cheers .

Last edited by Low Rated; Fri May 31, 2013 at 02:56 PM.. Reason: Quoting~
 
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Fri May 31, 2013, 05:02 PM
(#6)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Low Rated View Post
I believed that a minraise would be enough to fold out bluffs and weaker made hands.
Read this again, and ask yourself one question: Why would you want to fold out bluffs and weaker made hands?


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Fri May 31, 2013, 05:34 PM
(#7)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
When i get KJ i think to myself of this hand as 72o it just dont win a cent unless your stealing, the only time ive min raised or 2.5ish is when the flop is like 7QQ and villain does a tiny cbet and i have junk myself i will raise 2.5 and they fold.
 
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Fri May 31, 2013, 07:38 PM
(#8)
Low Rated's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 114
Quote:
Read this again, and ask yourself one question: Why would you want to fold out bluffs and weaker made hands?
Yeah I know it seems strange, but the pot was pretty big and my hand was pretty bad. If my hand was best (which in hindsight it clearly isn't) I would have been happy to take it there. At the time I didn't know where I stood and ended up throwing water on a grease fire.

Quote:
When i get KJ i think to myself of this hand as 72o it just dont win a cent unless your stealing
No lie . I have a couple hand histories saved where that hand got me into trouble. Guess that's why they call it a rookie hand.
 

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