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Sick. Ran over by the board. Could I have played this better?

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Sick. Ran over by the board. Could I have played this better? - Mon Jun 03, 2013, 07:16 AM
(#1)
lolipedofin's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 62


1st one, Should I have bet at the river and try to represent quads to push him out of the pot? The reason why I just check is because there's not much hand that I can beat, if any. I surmise that smaller pocket pair wouldn't stick around that long, higher pocket pair is also unlikely because there's no pfr, and there's already an ace on the board.

Therefore I put the villain's range at any Ace, Jack, or 9. So the best that could happen is a split pot, If I put him at 9 (which is unlikely before showdown, because 3 of them are already out) I might have been able to scare him out with a big bet, but I'm afraid of the possibility of him holding an A or J and planning to check-raise me, therefore I check.
 
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Mon Jun 03, 2013, 07:37 AM
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Shichi-77's Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 607
I would raise pre-flop to 120, after I wouldn't play other way. I don't think shoving is good decision , an A never folds there it's fast unbelievable to have quads if be honest I didn't expect him to have 9 The worst river lol, your best hand turns just into 9 .
 
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Mon Jun 03, 2013, 07:37 AM
(#3)
lolipedofin's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 62


2nd one.

To be honest, since villain only called from BB, I really didn't put him at high pocket pair at all.

So, up until turn card is dealt it was pretty straightforward. I flopped a bottom set, I'm convinced that I have the best hand and reraise him quickly. everyone else fold.

Now during the turn, villain made a really small bet, quarter of the pot, and I decided to just call, because I was trying to maximize value, I don't want to scare him away, and I was trying to send a message that the flop re-raise was just a bluff/semi-bluff. At this point, I put him at any J or any 9, not JJ, 99, or J9 because if it was, I think he would have shipped it on the flop.

At that point I have comitted 2/3 of my stack.

When the river came, I have to be honest that I was really angry, probably hit tilt, and when he pushed, I knew I was beat. I call anyway, because I considered myself pot comitted and hoping that it was a bluff even though it was really a long shot. Then he flipped the b*tches for better boat.


Did I play this wrong? Should I have pushed at the turn? Is it possible that he would lay down his Queens even though it was an overpair?
Should I have folded? I knew I was beat, but then again, 2/3 of my stack is already on the pot. Folding there would bring my chips exactly back to the beginning +15.

Last edited by lolipedofin; Mon Jun 03, 2013 at 07:59 AM.. Reason: grammar error.
 
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Mon Jun 03, 2013, 07:44 AM
(#4)
lolipedofin's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shichi-77 View Post
I would raise pre-flop to 120, after I wouldn't play other way. I don't think shoving is good decision , an A never folds there it's fast unbelievable to have quads if be honest I didn't expect him to have 9 The worst river lol, your best hand turns just into 9 .
The reason why I limped is because this is a .10c buy in 360 people tourney, and still early. Which means, too many bingo players. I'm playing from a very early position, which means anyone after me can shove, so I limped with the plan to fold if 2 or more people shove all in, and only plays it if I have an overpair after flop, or flopped a set. I don't want to throw 120 out there and only fold when 4 maniacs after me decides to ship it.

EDIT:

Btw, both these happened today in the span of 1-2 hours, and both are the only times I flopped a set! So unbelievably sick! Especially the 2nd one, I have been playing really solid, slowly accumulating chips, and not once put myself at risk until that hand. I could easily post this at bad beat thread and rant there, but I decided analyzing the play is much more beneficial.

Last edited by lolipedofin; Mon Jun 03, 2013 at 07:52 AM.. Reason: Just adding
 
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Mon Jun 03, 2013, 08:23 AM
(#5)
Shichi-77's Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 607
Shove on the turn with 55, both of you are pot committed.Opponent never folds there even with Jx. just a cooler never mind as played fold river your hand doesn't have showdown value, not anymore.
 
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Mon Jun 03, 2013, 11:21 AM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
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Hi lolipedofin!

With 99 and a limper in front of me, since the stacks are deep enough to do so (over 15X the bet), I'm more than happy to limp behind and try to setmine. The more opps that are in the pot, the more that can pay me off if I hit a set.

I flop bottom set and when it checks to me, I absolutely need to make a value bet here. The key is the sizing. With 5 opps, I need to make a pot-sized bet here of 180. I do not want to bet less than this, as an opp with a straight draw can be getting the correct odds to call me. I want to make bets when I'm ahead where the opps expect to lose chips to me if they want to chase a draw, not a bet where the opps get the correct price and expect to gain chips from me.

The turn pairs the board to give me the bottom full house. I will once again make a value bet and once again, the sizing of the bet is key. With 2 opps in the hand, my standard sizing is 2/3 pot, so I will bet 300. Once again, I don't want to be betting less, as I can be giving a player with Ax or Jx the correct odds to try to outdraw me.

The river puts 3 jacks on the board. Since Ax is well within the opp's range here (and had the river counterfeit me), since I do have showdown value, I will check behind here and go to showdown. I don't want to bet and leave an opportunity for the opp to check/shove... which I'd have to muck to.

The keys here are the bet sizes. Post-flop bets need to be based on the pot-size, number of opps and board texture. My standards are 1/2 pot for 1 opp, 2/3 pot for 2 opps, 3/4 pot for 3 opps and a pot size bet for 4+ opps. By keeping all of my bets standard, I not only can price out the opp's draws, I will keep the opps guessing as to the cards that I have, as I will make the same bet with whatever cards I decide to play.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)

P.S. Please limit it to one hand per thread in the future so that the discussions can stay on topic.


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Last edited by JWK24; Mon Jun 03, 2013 at 11:23 AM..
 
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Mon Jun 03, 2013, 11:30 AM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
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Hi lolipedofin!

With a limp and a raise in front of me, I'm in the CO with 55. This is totally different from the first situation, as here while my stack is deep enough to setmine, the initial raiser's is not. They don't have 15X the bet in their stack (and neither does the SB if they come along). Due to this, I'm going to need to 3-bet or fold here and if the opps are playing tighter, 55 is not strong enough to 3-bet with.. so I'm mucking this preflop. If the initial raiser had more chips, then I'd call to setmine, but not with the stack the opp has.

If I did see the flop (which I would not), when I flop bottom set with a possible straight and flush draw, I need to raise. With 2 opps still in the hand, I will normally make a 2/3 pot size raise (see this is the same standard value bet amount from the first hand), which is to 1183... HOWEVER... this is more than 1/3 of my remaining stack which means that I'm pot-committed. Due to being pot-committed, I can never fold, so I need to SHOVE the flop.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


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