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Good or Bad Fold?

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Good or Bad Fold? - Mon Nov 25, 2002, 03:53 PM
(#1)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
30 minutes into the 2 PM NLHE event I get this hand:

Starting hand #10940957
>>>DEALING HOLE CARDS<<<
TrumpinJoe dealt down Jh Js
jedurh posts the small blind $75
Cockroach posts the big blind $150
RPM raises $375 to $525 (~$13,000 left)
babe60 folds
WeakAce folds
TrumpinJoe raises $1,275 to $1,800 (~$6500 left)
robhild calls $1,800 (~$700 left)
EStrict folds
thehazyone folds
jedurh folds
Cockroach folds
RPM raises $6,525 to $8,325
TrumpinJoe folds

I fold thinking I am against two overcards and an overpair.

Good, bad or UGLY play :?:
 
Old
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Mon Nov 25, 2002, 04:01 PM
(#2)
Deleted user
I thought it was a good fold, an all in reraise of an early raise and a following flat call - plus you are out of position, don't know what the caller behind you will do.
 
Old
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Mon Nov 25, 2002, 07:53 PM
(#3)
Deleted user
Good fold. You will not be able to regain the intiative unless you flop a Jack. (And you do need to flop a Jack). Chances are slim. Fight another battle when you can be the aggressor.

Later,
Wendell
 
Old
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Mon Nov 25, 2002, 09:09 PM
(#4)
Deleted user
Hey Joe,

The pre-flop raise wasn't a big one and I'm wondering why you put a fair size re-raise in if you weren't willing to put the rest of your stack in. You're leaving yourself in a very precarious situation.

If you suspect he has an over-pair then you're opening yourself up to a big re-raise. I think the time to decide whether or not you want to put your whole stack in was before you raised.

I suspect that you wanted to knock out the competition and get heads up with him but I don't think this is the hand to do it with.

I would have been inclined to just call the pre-flop raise and hope to either have the top pair on the flop or possibly hit a Jack. But even if I do have top pair on the flop, if he gets aggressive I've got a tough decision because he could very well have that over-pair.

If there is a Queen, King, or an Ace on the flop and he gets aggressive it should be very easy for you to get away from it and it has only cost you $525.

If you hit a Jack then you're in great spot to make yourself a nice big pot.

Having said that, if I had made the same raise you did and, if I believed this player was capable of making this play with less than Aces, Kings, or Queens, I probably would have just put my whole stack in and gone with him.

sarge

ps: don't we not have a forum especially desgned for this type of question?
 
Old
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Wed Nov 27, 2002, 02:18 AM
(#5)
Deleted user
Usually, you are correct to fold in that spot.

One point to make, and I know we have had this discussion in the past concerning the same concept, going off the limited stack infromation given, you should have just called the first raise. Re-raising destroyed your hands value.
 
Old
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Wed Nov 27, 2002, 02:40 AM
(#6)
Deleted user
One thing I do to help myself make tough decisions like this is to quickly look up a player's percentile ranking and bankroll here at the PSO site. In general, the lower the percentile and bankroll, the more likely I am to call. I haven't looked up any of the players involved so I can't comment either way on which play to go with, and without other info I'd lean towards fold, but for those real close calls I've found this to be an effective decision maker.
 
Old
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Wed Nov 27, 2002, 04:35 AM
(#7)
Deleted user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesseboy
One thing I do to help myself make tough decisions like this
This isn't a tough decision.
 
Old
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Wed Nov 27, 2002, 08:19 AM
(#8)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodles
Usually, you are correct to fold in that spot.

One point to make, and I know we have had this discussion in the past concerning the same concept, going off the limited stack infromation given, you should have just called the first raise. Re-raising destroyed your hands value.
This case does illustrate your point Noodles and I have come to play that way in multi-way pots. However, against a single raiser I prefer a more aggressive approach. Aggression is a two edged sword as this hand points out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtcyber
I suspect that you wanted to knock out the competition and get heads up with him but I don't think this is the hand to do it with.
That is exactly what I wanted. However it is far from what I got as once again the damn hooks caught nothing but trouble. In my next BB however, I find 98s with 3 limpers then get the miracle flop of 567 and two players pay-off my check and jam.

Thanks everyone for the comments. It was a good fold. The suspicious play was coming over the top pre-flop with hooks (representing a bigger pair) from the middle.

As it was I was against AK and AJ, with only 5 outs between them I would have been a slight favorite. But analyzing results instead of probabilities is a dangerous game.

p.s. sarge, you are right. This should have been posted in the Beginner's section of the forum. :wink:
 
Old
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Wed Nov 27, 2002, 09:49 AM
(#9)
Deleted user
No problem Joe, but I was thinking about the Advanced Poker Discussion forum.

sarge
 
Old
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Wed Nov 27, 2002, 03:29 PM
(#10)
Deleted user
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrumpinJoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodles
Usually, you are correct to fold in that spot.

One point to make, and I know we have had this discussion in the past concerning the same concept, going off the limited stack infromation given, you should have just called the first raise. Re-raising destroyed your hands value.
This case does illustrate your point Noodles and I have come to play that way in multi-way pots. However, against a single raiser I prefer a more aggressive approach. Aggression is a two edged sword as this hand points out.
Then be aggressive with a hand that doesn't mind being re-re-raised, either because you will be going all the way, or because you will be folding.

One of your reasons was to get heads-up. I don't think this is a good idea. It is unlikely that your opponent will just call your re-raise preflop. They will probably move-in or fold, with you either winning or giving up a small pot. Again, better to do this with a hand that doesn't mind that scenario rather than one that gets its value from seeing the flop in that spot. Of course, I would agree with your re-raise if either of you had started the deal with 5k or so.
 

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