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SOP open A8s itm v's maniac.

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Fri Jun 07, 2013, 03:03 PM
(#1)
ahar010's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 614
Hi JigJig,

Read is important. If it is two really tight player that won't 3Bet you light to resteal then I think bet fold is ok.

Vs an Aggressive player or a mainiac as you suggest then I would just prefer open shoving. Increase fold equity and take those 3600 chips without opposition. You don't completely value own yourself either because loose people still call in this spot with Kx hands and even a few worse Ax on occasion.

Nice Run.
Andy




Quad Bracelet Winner

 
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Fri Jun 07, 2013, 08:48 PM
(#2)
ahar010's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 614
Hi JigJig,

You are only 12BBs deep effective. Which definately simplifies things for A8s I think.

Shove or Bet Call vs Maianiac

Bet Fold vs a PSO nit.

NEVER fold A8s here on this stack. If you don't want to see a flop with it, just shove it.


I had thought you were at FT already with only 4 players at your table.

Andy




Quad Bracelet Winner

 
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Sat Jun 08, 2013, 10:27 AM
(#3)
KGClarke's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
Posts: 50
Looking back at this tournament, of the seven hands I was in the big blind whilst at your table I folded five, walked one, and this was the first time I raised/re-raised. Is this the new definition of maniac? My read of your read of me was, therefore, way off so I thought it was a steal and you would fold to a shove.

Up to this hand:


Last edited by KGClarke; Sat Jun 08, 2013 at 02:10 PM.. Reason: Added table of stats
 
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Sun Jun 09, 2013, 02:30 AM
(#4)
CollinCapone's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 8
You played this perfectly. You had a read he'd jam over your min open and he did. The only thing bad about this hand is the unlucky way it played out for you. Normally you hold here and you win and you wouldn't even think twice about it. Well played!

 
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Sun Jun 09, 2013, 08:00 AM
(#5)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
This hand's interesting to me because I had a slightly similar spot during the MicroMillions where I limped in with AK to induce a shove - and was surprised to see JigJig's odds with A8s versus 96o were the same as they would have been with AK ... 2:1. Although I had 10bbs, and JigJig you have over 20bbs here (M of 12).

Kind of makes me wonder if AK isn't the ideal hand to intentionally try to get people to shove into, to play for stacks, when everybody fairly close in stack size, with over 20bbs left, being *just* a 2:1 favorite versus a lot of hands?

Which is in line with ahar's advice - to either bet-fold versus a tighter player, or push all-in versus a maniac. Like, doing the same thing with JJ+ would up the odds considerably ... maybe with 20bbs there's still time to have higher standards?

I don't know ... I don't play a lot of tourneys - what do people think about that?


On the other hand, I was looking at the payout structure for Event 21, since the one for Event 17 isn't listed any more. And ... doing a rough ICM calculation, an all-in appears to be +EV, is that right? Fold = $8 ... all-in = (14.50 x 2/3) + (2 x 1/3) = 10.37 (?? is that right ?? )? But, maybe a push in the hopes of picking up chips uncontested, with the all-in as the fall-back might have been *more* +EV?

I don't know Interested in hearing peoples thoughts though!!


PS Patchy internet this morning ... hope this goes through
 
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Still Disagree With Loose - Mon Jun 10, 2013, 06:41 AM
(#6)
KGClarke's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
Posts: 50
The sarting hands which I chose to play:



One or two loose-ish plays, but in general fairly tight; perhaps it would be better to show what I chose to fold ...



(Only showing starting hands in top 25%.)

By my calculations, ICM is $5.65 if you fold, $7.88 if you call assuming you think you are 2:1 against my range.
(FYI, top ten prizes: $14.87, $10.61, $8.04, $5.99, $4.11, $3.42, $2.74, $2.05, $1.37, $1.19.)

Last edited by KGClarke; Mon Jun 10, 2013 at 01:07 PM.. Reason: Even more info added
 
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Tue Jun 11, 2013, 06:19 AM
(#7)
KGClarke's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
Posts: 50
I'm not saying that you made a mistake (apologies if you got that impression).

I would also be opening Kx, maybe Qx from the button especially when four handed; if I only raised with Qx rather than jamming (the latter being more likely) then I would probably fold to a shove. It was unlucky for me that you had an Ace and couldn't fold, but I still had some equity and just got very lucky. Perhaps if I'd given it more thought at the time I would have folded.

Perhaps it is timely that Chris has a training session today How Dare You Raise My Blinds! which I hope to attend.

The hands in the previous post are from this tournament up to this level; there is only a slight widening of my range in turbos and I prefer the longer games.
 

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