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5NL 6-max Zoom KK 3B pot

5NL 6-max Zoom KK 3B pot - Fri Jun 07, 2013, 10:13 PM
fp_boss77's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 490
Hi, the villain is unkown.
The turn is a clear fold spot right ? The only hand I'm beating here is AQo and it's more likely he had QQ.
Any thoughts ?

Fri Jun 07, 2013, 10:26 PM
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
I don't think its a fold. He can be shoving here with combo draws (JhTh, AhQh etc) as well as his value hands like sets, 2pair etc.

We also getting great pot odds when he shoves (calling $2.21 to win $7.68 which is almost 3 to 1).

I pokerstoved his range as: QQ, 99, 55, 44, AhQh, AhJh, AhTh, QhJh, QhTh, JhTh, AQo. I think it's hard for him to have 2 pairs here because he defends the 3b OOP.

We have 58% equity vs this range, which makes it definitely +EV to call.
Sat Jun 08, 2013, 12:08 PM
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
Hi fp_boss and birdayy,

Here's my take on the hand.

@birdayy: "I pokerstoved his range as: QQ, 99, 55, 44, AhQh, AhJh, AhTh, QhJh, QhTh, JhTh, AQo."
I'd discount 55, AJ, AT as they should fold flop; JT would raise flop

I think his 3bet calling range and turn raise will be: { QQ, 99, 44, AQs, QhJh, AQo }
Against that range we have 52.6% equity; taking out QhJh still has us flipping

We only need to be good 22% of the time to make our call profitable once we bet the turn.
If we think AQ is in his range then we need to make the call; If we think his range is { QQ, 99. 44 } then we have to fold. I think the heart on the turn should not change things too much.

I still feel inclined to call though after we bet the turn ; and if he happens to have a set then oh well.
Sat Jun 08, 2013, 06:52 PM
TommyGun369's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 340
Hey everyone,

I agree that it is a call. Do not forget though, that you have to know the answer to your question before you bet the turn. The turn in 3b pots is often the street in which you have to make the commitment decision. If you do not want to be committed to getting all the money in check behind and call river. The fact that you bet and put such a big portion of your stack in means it is a mistake to let go off your hand. The same thought process might be going in his head as well. If he knows that it is time to make a commitment decision and decides to go with his AQ he might as well try to shove and leverage any fold equity he could possibly have since he is going to call your river shove anyway.
reply - Sun Jun 09, 2013, 12:24 AM
glenn161274's Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 146
As i said in your previous hand , you are still beating some of his range. But you are constantly folding to a turn raise you are playing a very exploitable game, so hopefully one of the hand analyzer's could tell you a bit more. What about getting a hand history review from one of the trainers that would be the best thing i could suggest for you . They will pick over your whole game and give you some direction..

Triple Bracelet Winner
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 03:30 AM
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Hi fp_boss77

Nice discussion guys!

I am pretty nitty and a big proponent of not overplaying "just a pair" hands. However, I too am calling the turn here. Yes, QQ seems quite likely and fits his line. Yet, we are getting a good price and as geo points out, if AQo is in his range, or any other weaker hand perhaps even 1010 or JJ, then we are good. Against an unknown, I would definately keep AQo in. I would include AA and KK in his range as well.

I think TommyGun369 makes the most important point for improvement. If you are not prepared to get all in, then you shouldn't be betting the turn. If you are "constantly" bet-folding the turn, this may be a leak. This notion also leads to how I suggest playing this hand.

I recommend checking the turn with the intention of check-calling the river. This achieves several things. Firstly, it keeps us from overplaying our "just a pair" hand. There has been a lot of action from an ep raiser. QQ and AA are a concern. Moreover, we have showdown value and the board is pretty dry except for the flush draw, but that didn't show up until the turn. Secondly, checking keeps the villain's range wide. If he is holding AQ, 1010, JJ, and perhaps KQs, he might might lead with a bet that we can call on the river gaining some more value from him. If he bets with AA or a set, then we have minimized our losses.

GL at the tables!

Roland GTX
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 02:03 PM
fp_boss77's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 490
Thanks all you guys for the insights, they were really helpful.

And glenn, I got interested on what you said about getting a hand history review from one of the trainers. Could you give me more details about it ?


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