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This considered as a bad beat?

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This considered as a bad beat? - Fri Jun 14, 2013, 03:55 PM
(#1)
WhoPlaydWho?'s Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 5
This meik 300 doubled up earlier from me with 1010 to my AK. He was not short then, as he is not here. I worked every player at every table to be #1 throughout the better half of this sit & go. Even soon after doubling meik 300 up here.

Just to come to this hand on the final table with 8 left and 7 make money.

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-h...805_F7D742A8E3

I went all in next hand, to lose with Qs10s, just to be called by a tad shorter stack than me with QhJc. Wild, to say the least, that I hit a 10 on the flop.

I can only think that meik 300 thinks he has a lucky streak to me to even consider shoving my re-raise.

In the other hand I mentioned, another guy min-raised early, where I re-raised my AK and meik 300 shoves his 1010.

So now, would he not think or even know that he is definitely behind here? Is AJ really good in his position? Is AJ really good to raise there? Re-raise? Shove?

I will post all hands like this here, if, this is considered a bad beat.
 
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Fri Jun 14, 2013, 04:58 PM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,814
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Hi WhoPlaydWho?!

This really isn't a bad beat. The opp should never fold there (they should have open-shoved). Yes, you're going to win this a bit over 70% of the time, but it's really good plays by both players. They should shove and you should call in most instances.... BUT, here's the point of the hand... This IS the bubble and there are other smaller stacks. I'm not going all-in on the exact bubble without a made hand.

Wait until after the bubble, or call with AK vs the 2k stacks.. not one that can do damage to your stack.

John (JWK24)


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6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Fri Jun 14, 2013, 05:01 PM
(#3)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
Yes, it's a bad beat, because you were a (big) favourite when all the money went in.

As to whether villain's play is correct, that's a different matter. After raising and getting 3-bet, he should see that you are pot-committed, as you've put almost half your stack in the middle (why not just shove?). AJ is nearly always losing to your stack off range, but if villain thinks you get it in with all pairs, he can be flipping sometimes. Your raise means villain is getting immediate odds of about 2:1, so theoretically he could call the 3-bet with ATC, but in practice he has to shove or fold.


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Fri Jun 14, 2013, 05:55 PM
(#4)
WhoPlaydWho?'s Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 5
Not to worried about tightening my range to premiums only because of being at the bubble. Maybe different story if I was playing a higher prize. I think AK is pretty much up their with a great starting hand though. So, not sure if I can ever fold this hand here with the size of my stack.

Do I not want him to call here? I 3-bet exactly to tell him I'm ready to rock'n'rolla. It is the bubble and if he loses he's 100% out with no profit. I definitely believe I am ahead of him. Plus, I don't mind racing, if he does have a pair. Like he did early with 1010.

Thanks, you two for posting your thoughts. What does ATC stand for?
 
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Fri Jun 14, 2013, 06:04 PM
(#5)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
ATC = Any two cards.

Just flatting the initial raise on the bubble is probably best, but if you want to 3-bet, then I much prefer shoving with AK here, because even hands like 32o are priced in by your raise, as that hand has a 34% chance of winning.


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Fri Jun 14, 2013, 07:06 PM
(#6)
WhoPlaydWho?'s Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 5
Thanks. I like ATC. haha

Doesn't it usually show more strength to 3-bet rather than just shoving? If I just shove there, do you think it changes his perspective in any way towards playing his hand? I don't see it one bit as I am telling any player that I am making myself pot committed and won't be folding to any re-raise or shove or call then shove on any flop.

In this case, after the fact, definitely flat calling would of been best as I LOST. haha

With my stack size. Being the bubble. Watching him make enough raises, the way he did here in any position and shoving 1010 after a min-raise and my re-raise. You can honestly tell me you would just flat call this guy in this hand? I'm there to win it hard!
 
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Fri Jun 14, 2013, 07:38 PM
(#7)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
There's a couple of things to consider here:

1. In a 25c game, most villains aren't conscious of whether your 3-bet looks strong or whether it's obvious you're pot committed or not. They either like their hand enough to go with it, or they don't.

2. You're one spot off the money, with a big stack, and there are two guys with 4bb or less. You could even fold AK here and be virtually guaranteed a place in the money.

3. Villain will often show up with a pocket pair here, and you'll be getting it in bad. There's no need to take big flips on the bubble, when playing a small pot gives you a much higher chance of making money.

Playing to win is all well and good, but I'd recommend you negotiate the bubble before stacking off for 17bb effective. Villains in the 25c games are often pretty woeful once they have mincashed. After the bubble bursts, it's perfectly fine to get it in with AK, because villains will ship all in with worse aces. On the bubble, you'll usually be faced with better hands than AJs.


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Last edited by ArtySmokesPS; Fri Jun 14, 2013 at 07:42 PM..
 
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Fri Jun 14, 2013, 09:41 PM
(#8)
WhoPlaydWho?'s Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 5
Excellent points to consider. Being .25 I'm not at all worried towards the chance of losing that quarter. Sucks it actually worked out that way. haha

I will take all this into consideration, but, I think I might be done for a while. Seeing some amazing 7th street magic in Razz, on top of this. Not sure I have an edge towards terrible bingo-dabbing players and the hits when ahead are wild how it turns around.

Thanks again and good luck out(in? on?) there.
 

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