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Should your stats be much different for LHE?

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Should your stats be much different for LHE? - Mon Jun 17, 2013, 03:44 PM
(#1)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
My 3 bet is pretty high as it's much more difficult to isolate opponents in LHE, the only way to achieve this is to 3 bet more. I'm hoping this is correct?

What other stats should I look out for in FLHE?
 
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Mon Jun 17, 2013, 04:01 PM
(#2)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,308
As you know, I'm a "stats guy", but I've not played enough FLH to find out what are standard stats. In comparison to NLH, there are a few stats that should be higher in FLH and these include VPIP (because you can call in LP with speculative hands multiway more often) and WTSD (because you'll have the right pot odds to go to showdown more often).
I'd guess that there is some scope for a higher 3-bet number in FLH as compared to NLH, but it really depends on the type of opponents you're facing. I can't imagine there's any reason to ever 3-bet bluff pre-flop, but your iso-raising value range might be wider. (e.g. in a full ring NL game, I'm not often 3-betting AQo pre-flop, but in FLH, you're probably better off trying to thin the field pre-flop. Likewise with JJ and TT, as treating them solely as set-mining hands might not be all that great.)

I'd really like to see a screengrab of your positional stats (via PM if you'd rather not share it in public) just so I can compare the numbers to NLH stats. If anyone else has stats for FLH, their numbers and thoughts would be useful too.


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Mon Jun 17, 2013, 04:09 PM
(#3)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
This was on my blog post a few days ago.

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=qx6n49&s=5

I think however my stats are developing the more I play. For instance I'm probably raising in position a lot more even though I knew about position a month ago.

Don't know if you read my blog post but I thanked you personally for a reminder of taking the right seat in a game. I am playing Stars for my challenge but I'm playing 50c/$1 on another site with a decent profit.

Really think there is value in Limit. There are very few specialists and I want to become to decent reg.
 
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Mon Jun 17, 2013, 04:14 PM
(#4)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
All 6 max.

But you made a point about playing drawing hands in position which I'll maybe incorporate more.
 
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Mon Jun 17, 2013, 05:06 PM
(#5)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,308
Stats are interesting. You're showing good positional awareness. I think you can probably PFR/3-bet more often in MP and OTB, particularly with TT/JJ, big aces and kings, because calling with those hands will mean the blinds get great pot odds to come in with speculative hands. You want the BB to have to call a double bet, and not be priced in with hands like T8s.
One potential leak is your SB, as your VPIP is very high there. Remember that even though you have a bargain price to call, you'll be first to act post-flop, so it will be hard to win a big pot OOP.
WTSD looks good, but more importantly your W$SD is over 50%. It's crucial to keep that up.

You're clearly beating the game, but you might be able to improve your bottom line by replaying hands you played in the blinds. Look at the action and see if you would have been better off raising or folding pre-flop, and think about whether leading out of check-raising leads to bigger wins.


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Mon Jun 17, 2013, 05:25 PM
(#6)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
I know about my SB calling leak but I still keep doing it - Call cheap, catch something and then call the flop because the flop bet is a half bet. I know it's the worst position but I still make the mistake, especially against poorer players that can have any 2.

Not sure about your assumption of TT/JJ though. Players at these stakes rarely fold pre flop and TT/JJ against any 2 randoms always have an overcard on the flop and I usually don't know where I stand? I know you're NL but both games are similar so I'd respect your opinions.

As I say my stats are still developing. As I've learned more I've changed my game, and that's just in a month. My stats at the beginning of the month are different from what I'm playing now. I'm pretty happy with how I'm playing but I feel there is a lot of value in Limit.

To my opening question, how do my 3 bet stats look? Now I've looked at my 2c/4c stats they don't look out of factor but I think they should.
 
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Mon Jun 17, 2013, 06:12 PM
(#7)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,308
I'm really not sure what a "standard" percentage for 3-bet in FLH would be. I'm not even a major 3-bettor in NLH 6-max. (I 3-bet about 4% of the time at 2NL, and that's including occasional light 3-bets with A5s in BB vs button, but wil try and increase it at 5NL).
You'd have to check some hands to see if there is any fold equity for your 3-bets. It's unlikely that pre-flop raisers will fold all that often to your button 3-bet, but it's harder for the blinds to cold-call, so you should at least be heads up in position fairly often, and can follow your pre-flop aggression with a c-bet.

Also take a look at HUD stats for villains in 3-bet pots. See how often they fold to c-bets. If your opponents actually possess FOLD buttons, then iso-raising pre and then c-betting most flops should prove to be profitable.


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Mon Jun 17, 2013, 06:25 PM
(#8)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
3 betting in FLHE is more to thin fields and push off opponents to act after you. It's not used to push off original raiser.

Guess that's why my OP, I want to know what standard stats should be. As FLHE is unpopular, I've nobody really to compare to.

Good discussion though.
 
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Mon Jun 17, 2013, 09:06 PM
(#9)
adohole's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,083
BronzeStar
heey oval the first thing i saw was the sb stat indeed and you are playing pretty loose this is for fr right?
you arent going to showdown to often as it seems but still losing to many pots at showdown i need w$sd at at leas 52.5% and thats the mis for micro/low stakes. further i would try to call a ltile less behind. one really good tip i got reading flhe strategie was dont call with worse hands than you would raise from the position the op is in. still your bb/100 is pretty nice although its a really smal sample size for flhe. best of luck in the games man


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Tue Jun 18, 2013, 06:57 AM
(#10)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
This is all 6 max Adohole.

Think I'll spend a while analysing my small blind stats.

The problem is it's only a half bet to complete and most of opponents at these stakes are raising or calling stations. My strengths are playing off a flop so any disadvantage with position is made up but by playing on other streets.

Guess that's why my WTSD stats are low, I'm getting in cheap and not chasing. Most pots are multi way pots with 3 or more players, I like to be strong if I'm investing any further chips in the hand.

Thanks for the help guys. I want to hit 10,000 hands and post them on 2P2. There are a few Limit experts that can go over them with a fine tooth comb.
 

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